Am I being unreasonable?

Parents Forum
81

<p>I'm with blossom and the others who want to see teenagers gain workplace experience.</p>

<p>My experience with my son is that when he got a part time job while in high school, his school work IMPROVED -- he became more focused and disciplined about managing his time. He already was an A student - so it didn't make a difference as to grades - but he became more disciplined and focused about his work, spending less hours frittered away playing videogames. </p>

<p>My daughter usually did not work part-time in high school -- she did for awhile but quit because the particular job she had was too stressful and she had problems with getting paid (paychecks "lost", hours paid not matching up with hours reported, etc.). That in itself was a valuable experience, since she had to navigate the runaround and deal with the corporate office to get her money. Her brother - who by that time had been in the position of managing payroll at his own job -- gave her great advice as to her legal rights and exactly what agencies to mention in order to light the fire under the people who were dragging their feet.</p>

<p>The other nice thing was that bad job ended up opening the door for a much better job the summer after high school, when she was able to start with higher pay at a hard-to-get position because she could tell her prospective employer that she already had retail experience. Her personal goal has been to round out her experience -- with a job history at age 18 that includes office work, retail experience, and food service - it just becomes easier to be hired.</p>

<p>And that's what I see now: I am the parent of 2 kids who have no problem whatsoever finding and holding jobs when their peers are unemployed. My son is going to easily find management level work anywhere, because he worked his way up to a management position at age 20. My daughter had a work study job on campus before any of her classmates -- both because she has learned how to get jobs in the first place, and she has the experience to qualify for better positions. My son is now in college working 2 jobs and earning straight A's; my daughter actually has 3 jobs at her campus (one regular work study job, + signed with 2 agencies that provide occasional part-time work as needed). </p>

<p>Since my kids rely on financial aid -- and the financial aid system assumes that the kid will earn and contribute to their education -- there really is no choice here. But I think that kids whose families paid full cost and who did not need to work are at a competitive disadvantage in the end when it comes to finding employment, no matter what the degree. I know as a lawyer that a J.D. degree is no guarantee whatsoever of employment, and that the field is extremely competitive. It goes beyond the experience that is described in a resume -- it also has to do with all the skills that go into finding and interviewing for jobs in the first place. The higher the level of employment, the more that employer is going to want to see an indication that the person hired is able to work well independently, to be trustworthy, and to be able to take initiative while at the same time respecting and supporting the employer's goals.</p>

<p>======</p>

<p>On a slightly different note: I did not have to tell either of my kid's to get part-time jobs in high school. They each surprised me with the news that they had their jobs after they had been hired. But if I wanted to encourage a reluctant kid to work, I wouldn't give them an allowance. The best motivator for employment is a need for money.</p>

82

<p>I have nothing against summer jobs, to make some pocket money and so on. I find the notion of "finding out about the little people" funny( if anything, my h's illusions about "noble working masses" disappeared when he had to work at the factory and help with the harvest during his student years in USSR) . S remembers being poor very well, he doesn't need any refresher course. I also consider school and ECs S's job. We, adults, work during the day and then go home to relax, why shouldn't S, coming home after a long day of classes and practices, relax when his HW is done? We never had any problems with his work ethic, he is doing great in college and planning for a summer job already. Of course the most important reason he never had a job till now has nothing to do with our or his desire, immigration laws forbid the dependants of graduate students and workers on a visa to have a job. So I hope blossom is not among S's prospective employers. :-)</p>

83

<p>Well, since my original question I have been away from the computer most of the day and haven't even read through all of your helpful responses. I did have to stop at post #41 and say that I think you hit the nail on the head with the "entitlement" issue. I know he is a good kid, works hard, stays out of trouble.....but heck, there are a ton of kids just like him. The posts that I have read clearly show me that many of his hard-working, high achieving peers are holding down paying jobs as well. When I wittle it all down, I guess what I really want is for HIM to want a job......to show his parents that HE has the desire to make his way a little, and not rely on us for money. I don't want to be the big bad bully mom that "makes" him get a job. Am I crazy?</p>

<p>I'll now push past post #41 and read the rest :) Thanks for your advice!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I guess what I really want is for HIM to want a job......to show his parents that HE has the desire to make his way a little, and not rely on us for money. I don't want to be the big bad bully mom that "makes" him get a job. Am I crazy?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're not crazy, but you can't dictate someone else's feelings, either.</p>

<p>Your son probably realizes, as my kids do, that any amount he earns would be a drop in the bucket, and that he really can't "make his way" and not rely on you for money to any meaningful extent at this point in his life.</p>

85

<p>Amom:</p>

<p>I'm not sure I get your worry. Should he get a job for the summer? Absolutely, if he does not attend a summer camp or hold an internship. Lazing about the whole summer is not an option.</p>

<p>Should he get a job now? That is far less clear. He is working hard, is captain of the football team, AP exams and final exams and probably final projects are coming up. Even if he has some free time now, he may not, come May. </p>

<p>What he can do now with his free time is to try to line up jobs for the summer. But I agree with Marian, asking him "to make his way" is unrealistic. My S did not work throughout high school, could not even volunteer given his schedule. He is now working ten hours a week and earning decent money. It is true that besides the money, he has learned a great deal from holding a job (though learning how to deal with the "little people" does not seem to be part of it). College is not too late to learn to want a job and to want to earn one's own money. But definitely, a summer job.</p>

86

<p>Wow...if you don't need the money, that request is over the top, amom. Are you trying to give your son an ulcer? Are you trying to sabatoge his academic success?</p>

<p>My father made all of his children work from the time we could earn any bit of money--and we didn't need to work. I resented that useless time--earning $1.10 an hour or $3.00 per hour. What a giant waste of time. Those menial experiences had absolutely no impact on my ability to succeed at business. Tearing tickets at the movie theatre or serving ice cream at DQ did not make me a better architect or entreprenuer.</p>

<p>My brothers got jobs in bars and restaurants because they were higher paying jobs. They hung around with drunks and lowlifes at wee hours of the morning because that was what was required in those jobs. They bought cigarettes, alcohol and drugs with the money they earned that my parents couldn't track. One of my brothers moved to Florida for the summer--when he was 15. He had the money and my parents couldn't stop him.</p>

<p>I hire young architects. I could care less if they had summer jobs in high school. I would look cross-eyed at a candidate who put a hs job on their resume--I have scoffed at 'summer camp counselor' jobs on resumes. That is irrelevant to a professional job in my opinion.</p>

<p>My son didn't work until he was hired first as an intern on Capital Hill and then as a full-time staffer--at age 20.</p>

<p>There are decades and decades and decades to work. Personally, I'm just finishing my fourth decade. It's overrated. If he is lolling around doing nothing--that's one thing. But if he is busy and engaged and learning--I'd say you should let him be.</p>

87

<p>
[quote]
though learning how to deal with the "little people" does not seem to be part of it

[/quote]
I hope I didn't start this idea. I mentioned that I thought it was good for my son to work with people who were not going to go to college, whose job at the retail businesses was their career. The whole world is not like CC, as we all know, and there are lots of people who either don't get college degrees or who aren't aiming for an elite college. Given the kind of opportunities they've had, my kids aren't likely to work for minimum wage once they finish their education. I just think that sheltered kids can learn something from those who do. I certainly did not mean to be patronizing -- I just think that it's good for the soul to understand that not everyone goes from HS to an elite college and then to Wall Street.</p>

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<p>As neither my kid is headed for Wall Street, I don't think that's a concern.
What did I learn from my own summer jobs? That I definitely did not want to spend the rest of life doing those kinds of jobs. They motivated me to study harder. But that's not the issue with the OP's kid, apparently.</p>

89

<p>I'm wondering if Amom is feeling the need to urge her son to get a part-time job now because she is seeing him lazing around the home doing nothing useful for hours on end. My son was like that in high school -- even with his part-time job. (ha, ha). He just was able to skate with little effort for A's in his classes, and his EC's weren't very time consuming either. He spent many, many hours alone at home playing videogames. </p>

<p>I have to say that I have seen two versions of my son over time: the one with all the extra time to "relax" -- and the one working jobs that take up all his time. The hard-working version is a much happier person -- much more engaged, much more talkative with news to share, much more confident.</p>

<p>So all the parents here who are espousing a "leave the kid alone" viewpoint may not really be doing this kid any favors, if the mom is seeing too much time at home spent vegging out in front of a tv screen or computer monitor.</p>

90

<p>D never worked in HS, except to tutor here and there. She made decent enough money those three hours a week, that another job just didn't make sense. And I always felt her "job" was school. The tutoring gave her spending money, that I no longer had to supply. Her school work ethic and EC work ethic - officer, etc., and the responsibility that came with both of those gave her a huge work ethic. Now, in school, without my urging, she has gone for security training, and will work school parties, etc., She has worked making fundraising phone calls, etc. She is already looking for paid internships, etc., without my urging. If a child has a work ethic, it doesn't have to be reflected at a job. They can show it in other ways, as well. D was sal of her class, and the amount of reading and studying with 5 AP's her jr and senior year, and the demands of her schoolwork would have made a job extremely difficult. Also, after they work so hard at school, and at EC's, shouldn't the child have a bit of down time? For D this was every other Friday (usually too much schoolwork for every Friday night) night, and then it was school work on Sats and Suns. With that kind of schedule, there was no way to get a paid job outside of the tutoring.</p>

91

<p>
[quote]
IMHO, count your blessings and let him be.

[/quote]

I agree with ADad, garland, marite, katliamom and many other parents. I do not believe in the artificial "character building". If a kid goes to work resenting it, no work ethic will ever grow out of that. And anyway, I'd say that a kid described in the OP has plenty of work ethic already. And yes, the kids do need the down time. </p>

<p>If he wants to work - that's fine. If he needs to work - nothing could be done, he'll have to. Otherwise - let him be.</p>

92

<p>let him be to do what? hang out most of the time?</p>

<p>and sometimes parents are gosh the BOSS and can give instruction and tell kids what to do</p>

<p>pretty lame parents here</p>

<p>oh, let him sit and do nothing with his freetime, poor baby needs to chill for hours and hours a day</p>

<p>ahhhh</p>

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<p>The down time and (gasp!) "hanging out" may be just what the kid needs. </p>

<p>And fortunately, I am not the BOSS for my children. Somehow they seem to manage. ;)</p>

95

<p>I wish I had taken better advantage of those times when my son was free during his last few months of school. There were very few such days, but if I could do it over...a Saturday walk with him around the hills near our house would be nice. Or a visit to the new L.A. Planetarium. Or bumming around Baboa Island on a Sunday afternoon. Or even just a good game of poker.
I miss him.</p>

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<p>It is lame to treat a 17 yo like a 8 year old....yeah...and this, well, he doesn't wantttt toooo....egad...parents get to be woossiieee</p>

<p>These are young adults who have peers who are fighting in a war, who have to work, but some thnk their kids shouldnt have to get too stressed by doing something with hours and hours of free time</p>

<p>We give them very little credit, and if mom wants kid to not just sit around, well, then mom can ask that he do something</p>

<p>I guess I give the OPs son more credit than most of you do</p>

97

<p>OP asked our opinion, we gave ours. OP can choose to disregard whichever she wants.<br>
No need to call those who do not share yours lame or woosiieee. Sheesh...</p>

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<p>
[quote]
It is lame to treat a 17 yo like a 8 year old....

[/quote]

From my point of view, it's when the parents are trying to control the 17yo's life and artificially fill his free time with whatever - just so that he would not "hang out" - that is exactly "treating him as a 8 yo". </p>

<p>I trust that my kids know themselves how to spend their time when they are 17, and I do not have to be a BOSS and give them "instructions". If that is "lame" - well, my kids are probably geniuses, because they did turn out just fine with such a lame a parent. :D And they for sure do not need anybody do decide for them what to do with their free time (if they find any).

[quote]
I guess I give the OPs son more credit than most of you do

[/quote]

I do not know what do you mean by "giving credit", but that is definitely not what I have in mind. I do not think that "giving instructions" and controlling the kid's life is in any way compatible with giving him credit. </p>

<p>Fortunately, OP does give her son credit, and she is not going to make him get a job, she just wants him to want it himself.</p>

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<p>The boy is telling his mom that he is quite willing to get a job this summer.
He's also telling her that he needs some downtime to keep up the pace he has set for himself for the next few months. Having just launched an 18 year old, I can honestly understand that need. Senior year was crunch time for my kid.<br>
I think there's something to be said for trusting him to know what he needs. After all, he is 17/18 and not 8. Seems like he has a pretty good handle on what his limits are if his past accomplishments are any guide.</p>

100

<p>A.S.A.P. - thanks, you are saying it so much better... that's exactly what I was trying to tell.</p>