Am I crazy or am I on to something?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Okay, so after a long and arduous admissions season, I finally transferred into one of the top schools on my list. However, unfortunately, this has since changed. After my first month being here, I realized, that the majority of my learning is done outside the classroom. Don’t get me wrong, UNC is a great school and I have awesome classes and professors—from distinguished Stanford PhD’s to Harvard trained economist—you name it, I’m taking classes with the best of them. Yet, I still feel restless. After I get out of classes, I sit in the quad and plow through the completed works of Plato and I supplement that with some Adam Smith, then Noam Chomsky and at night I read A People’s History of the United States, and if I can fit it in, I read a little bit of Sir Phillip Sydney and some Anne Sexton (it’s always good to go to sleep after reading a nice poem). Honestly, I feel as though I could sit at home and do this all day and get the same education, only problem: I wouldn’t be getting a degree. </p>

<p>So I thought to myself: How can I still maintain and feed this voracious appetite I have for a wide variety of literature, while still remaining in school—and, keep a decent GPA? I came to the conclusion that St. John’s College would be the answer. There, I wouldn’t just stick to the Classics (which is what I’m majoring in), but I would explore minds of the Renaissance, Victorian, Modern, etc. eras as well. Not to mention that these readings would be supplemented with Greek and French and, also, classical music instruction. I just transferred to UNC as a junior, and therefore the majority of my classes are geared toward my degree. So, there is very little room for exploration. I went to a community college for my first two years of college, so I never got the chance to study the humanities in-depth. There is this dichotomy between the first half of my erudition and where I’m at now; I almost feel like I’ll be graduating as half the person than I can become, due in part to the lousy first half my education. Essentially, the only thing community college taught me was good studying habits, but it did not lead me to any earth shattering explanations on The Big Picture nor did it allow me to participate in The Great Conversation. </p>

<p>For those of you who don’t know, if you matriculate to St. John’s College, you have to start out as a freshman; and, apparently, it is not uncommon for students to transfer there after two or more years of college and begin anew. So, I guess, what I’m asking: </p>

<p>1.Do you think this is the right decision?<br>
2. Have you or anyone you’ve known “transferred” to St. John’s (Santa Fe)?
3. Are there any Johnnies out there who could give me their assessment of the college?</p>

<p>If you have gotten this far in reading my post, I would like to thank you very much for your patience. </p>

<p>P.S.: I’m not all that concerned with getting a degree to “boost my earning potential.” I want to (and will) be a writer, so my fate will be in my hands.</p>

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<p>I think starting college over as a freshmen is not a good use of years or money. </p>

<p>You mention that most of your learning is outside the classroom. Well, that is what college is like. Lots of the learning is in doing the assignments and independent work which is guided in class. Only a small amount of time is spent in class and only a small amount of learning takes place during class time. So, I don’t find it unusual that you observe that so much of your learning is outside of class.</p>

<p>Also, you say you want to be a writer. Sure, you could stay at home and write a lot. But in college, your writing will be critiqued and you will grow in ways that you cannot do quite the same way sitting at home. As well, there are discussions in some classes, which you can’t do by yourself. </p>

<p>Lastly, college is more than academics but is an entire personal growth experience.</p>

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<p>Finish your undergraduate degree where you are. Go to St. John’s for a master’s degree. Unless you and your family are just super rich and no one minds that you will spend seven years (2 CC, 1 UNC and 4 St. John’s if I am counting right) to get a bachelor’s degree, it is silly to spend that much time and money on a four-year degree, IMO.</p>

<p>Perhaps you could learn another language (is that required for a classics major?) or pick up a second major. It also doesn’t sound as though you are doing other things besides school. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Agree with finishing where you are. Don’t look back, look forward (don’t waste time regretting your years at a CC). My son, a math major, devours books- has probably read all of the ones you listed. You mention majoring in classics but also being a writer. You are never restricted to the books required for your courses, you can read them at UNC just as well as at St John’s. You also have to remember you have the rest of your life to read- be sure to do the required reading and writing first. There is no reason you can’t spend 5 or even 6 years getting your BA. You can slow down with the required classes so you have room in your schedule for the ones you could also take at the other school. I’m afraid you will find the same situation at St John’s- no place is perfect. Enjoy all your present campus has to offer- save some reading for after you graduate. There are surely many activities that interest you culturally that won’t be as accessible to you later. You sound like a kid in a candy store- overindulging on nonclass books instead of getting the school work done then doing something entirely different. Also- no law says you need to major in classics to be a good writer. Consider switching to a different major if the literature appeals to you more.</p>

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<p>As I understand it the transfer rate out of St. Johns is very high. A girl I know went for two years and then transferred so she could have more flexibility in her major and more breadth in the courses available to her. She said the drop off due to transfers out is very high for the same reasons.</p>

<p>She did say it was a wonderful experience, but was ready to fly the coop after two years. And, as you are experiencing, she said most of the learning was outside of the classroom. She’ll also have to add on a year due to the transfer, so will end up taking five years to complete her BA.</p>

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<p>I agree with the posters who suggest you stay at UNC. It is unlikely that all of the books you would be assigned at St. John’s would match the ones you are reading outside of class at UNC. Be careful of “the grass is greener” syndrome. It can seem easy to look ahead to a major change to solve your problems, but it is worthwhile to learn how to adapt where you are. Adapting to your situation is a skill you’ll need. Always moving on to something that looks better can frustrate you later in life.</p>

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<p>One more vote for UNC. Schedule a meeting with an academic advisor and figure out how to make the most of the next two years.<br>
Also, remember that you have plenty of time to learn and read, whether in graduate school or just for fun for the rest of your life.</p>

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<p>I don’t have an opinion on your transferring again, but thought this thread was very interesting since I just had an almost identical conversation with my son tonight - about not learning as much from classes as he can (and does) teach himself. Also, you mentioned two of his favorite authors, Chomsky and Zinn - and he read the People’s History over the summer. Eerie similarities. :)</p>

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<p>Remember that you have your whole life to read what you want. If you feel frustrated, and want to get to the books that you don’t have time for at college, you can always take a semester off. You also have breaks from school, and summer. Many students read on their own outside of class, and take advantage of vacations to follow up on something that interested them during the semester.</p>

<p>If this is a really a pressing problem, you could consider low residency programs like Goddard or Union Institute, or colleges with few distribution requirements (Brown, Amherst, Bennington, Sarah Lawrence, Hampshire etc.) in which you can better follow your own meandering interests, and/or work independently.</p>

<p>But it seems as if the best thing to do for now is finish up those two years that you have left, where you are, and then choose grad school carefully.</p>

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<p>Another idea is studying abroad - which can also mean a semester or year at a US school. Maybe just some time at a St. John’s or another institution would give you what you’re seeking. I agree that you should speak to people where you are and make a creative plan. The resources are there.</p>

<p>My goals and interests were similar to yours, and I went to one of the “most” intellectual schools in the country. Since reading your post I’ve been wondering just how I “got” what it is that I wanted and did receive. Yes, being at a school focused on Great Books and that kind of foundational learning was a wonderful thing. But mostly I think I appreciated the opportunity to have exciting intellectual experiences in my work, in my outside reading (I also was the one who read several extra books a week, much to the consternation of my friends, even at a school like that), and also in my relationships with professors.</p>

<p>You can find this where you are. You can also work toward it in your further studies. Also, I want to point out that as people have suggested the “highly intellectual” schools in the US fall on very different points in the spectrum: very structured programs with many requirements (Reed, St. John’s) and open-ended creative programs with few requirements (Brown, Hampshire). Both have positives and negatives. You may find that completing what you have started in a school that would allow you to work from both ends will give you the best ability to follow your own path, which seems like a mixture of both the structured and the creative.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>Becoming a self-directed lifelong learner is perhaps the major point of education, starting in kindergarten. Congratulations!</p>

<p>It’s too bad that your first two years were devoid of the kind of intellectual atmosphere and challenge that you apparently drink up, but it is a good thing that you developed good study habits. That will stand you in good stead. Now you appear to be in a place that supports your learning. (Despite what many say, which is based on the idea that college is for acquiring vocational training or a job credential, I think that the intellectual atmosphere and challenge of the college environment is enormously important for students, especially in the humanities.) </p>

<p>I wouldn’t go running off to yet another school. Talk with your advisor and get some advice about what classes might best support your intellectual development. The one thing you can have in college that you may not find again, except in grad school, is easy access to other people engaged in the same intellectual pursuits with whom you can exchange ideas, discuss, etc. And of course the opportunity to write and have your writing carefully critiqued by a knowledgeable person.</p>

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<p>My D sounds similar to you. She attends Duke right now the road from you and seems to be finding plenty of opportunities for reading and studying new topics on her own. When I talked to her a few weeks ago she was planning to sign up for an independent research class, a Duke Engage (community service) abroad program next summer and then a semester abroad the following spring in Istanbul or London. She is taking Chinese this semester which is giving her quite a challenge. And she joined several clubs including a magazine/website published by students. UNC is a great school and I’m sure you can find similar opportunities there. You might want to start by checking out the literary magazine or joining some clubs in your major. Another thing my D does is when she reads a book she likes she emails the author and starts up a dialogue with them. (of course this applies just to writers still alive) This has led her to do several research projects with various professors. You might want to check out books written by UNC or Duke professors to start with since you can easily go and visit with them. I’m sure they would love to talk to you about their work. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Another vote for finishing your degree at UNC, continuing and expanding your self-directed humanities exploration while there (primarily through your own reading but also through coursework, Humanities programs at UNC or neighboring institutions (many colleges have a Humanities program or institute with little-known resources, Ind Study courses, online courses, or study abroad.)
Then once you graduate, you can continue on your path: either via lifelong learning opportunities (reading / thinking on your own), or post-grad study abroad (or living in, say, Florence or Istanbul or Cairo or London or, well, almost anywhere, for some period of time, taking classes or just exploring), or an MA program, or PhD or whatever.
Seven years is a long time to be an undergrad. Finishing your BA degree doesn’t (shouldn’t!) mean that your opportunities to continue learning and growing end. (You also don’t want to be a serial transfer student.)</p>

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<p>Let me see if I understand the situation correctly. After two years of community college you survived the “long and arduous admissions season” and succeeded in transferring into the University of North Carolina. Now, after one month you have decided that the workload at UNC is negatively impacting the time you want to spend reading and exploring other subjects. So, your decision, after one month, is to explore transferring to another college and restarting your education and you’d like our input; do I have it right?</p>

<p>After reading your post I can’t decide if you are a self-aggrandizing, pedantic ■■■■■, (Synonym see: dilettante), or an employee of St John’s College with a particularly inept sense of marketing. On the off-chance that you are serious, would you please answer a few questions for me? What’s stopping you from studying Latin and Greek at UNC? What’s stopping you from getting training in classical music? Why didn’t you pursue those things at community college? You’re prepared to restart the clock and checkbook at St. John’s, why not stay at UNC and do it there? In fact, since you don’t care about the “boost to your earnings potential”, why go to school at all? For the cost of a library card, you can get access to Rosetta Stone Greek & Latin and still have plenty of time and money to read the great thinkers and practice the piano. Since you intend on being a writer regardless of the name of the college on your degree it seems to me that you could eliminate the middle-man and get right down to it.</p>

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<p>Yes, vinceh, the admissions session was “long and arduous,” as you emphasized. If you look at some of my previous posts, you’ll see: I was rejected from Chicago, Amherst, Virginia, and Yale (almost got in, but once it was discovered I had an associates degree, I couldn’t matriculate), and was accepted into Howard, Notre Dame, and UNC. So, yes, I would call that quite arduous. To answer your questions:</p>

<p>1.I’m studying both Greek and Latin at UNC and I’m reading ancient text and philosophy (which I love), but, if you couldn’t tell, I have an equal appreciation for modern literature as well (modern, being, anything after the fall of the Roman Empire). </p>

<ol>
<li><p>I concur on that one. UNC does have a music department. Hopefully, I can fit that into my two years of instruction. </p></li>
<li><p>Why didn’t I pursue those things at community college? I did. But as a result I only came out with a 3.56 GPA–barely an A. Being that UNC is way more rigorous than my community college, self directed study could get in the way of my GPA. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>And in regards to your last point, I’ve thought about getting “the middle-man” out the way. But you always have to have a plan B. I would one day like to do Peace Corps; that requires a college degree. Also, if I write something that is not successful, I would always have my degree to fall back on and could get a job at a newspaper or magazine. I’m writing for both here at UNC. </p>

<p>P.S. I think you used the word “dilettante” incorrectly. I do not pursue these things out of mere amusement; but, in fact, to be more human.</p>

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<p>The stuff that you do in your “self directed study”…can’t you find courses that deal with that material that you like? Also, many colleges have independent study credits, particularly for upper classmen and so can you plan out such a one for credit?</p>

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<p>Unless your parents are extremely rich and you have a lot of money to spend, I would not recommend transferring out to St. Johns. Make the most of what you have - don’t look back.</p>

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<p>College and for the rest of your life after college is for one to explore his/her potential and make the best of it. In real life, there is no one to hold your hand to success, you are on your own once you reach the adulthood.</p>

<p>If you’d like being babysitted thoughout your learning years, go back to your high school.</p>

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<p>Absolutely!</p>

<p>Get your degree and if you want to continue on with formal education, find a graduate program that is more to your liking.</p>

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<p>Among the requirements for the Peace Corps are: a proven, high-level of adaptability, the ability to make and maintain committments and an ability to surmount conditions that are not ideal. It is also expected that applicants will have experience volunteering. A college degree is not mandatory.</p>

<p>“I sit in the quad and plow through the completed works of Plato and I supplement that with some Adam Smith, then Noam Chomsky and at night I read A People’s History of the United States, and if I can fit it in, I read a little bit of Sir Phillip Sydney and some Anne Sexton…” “How can I still maintain and feed this voracious appetite…?” “I almost feel like I’ll be graduating as half the person than I can become…” "I do not pursue these things out of mere amusement; but, in fact, to be more human. "
These quotes reflect the manner in which you present yourself. Your interests are impressive, but please understand how the detail and the pining come across. Some on CC might think this is a calculated pose. </p>

<p>My best, most sincere advice to you is: keep reading. But work on the “human” skills of perspective and balance. Keep your committments. Produce superior results.
UNC is a fine school.</p>