<p>I'm a sophomore in college majoring in Economics. I'm planning to study thoroughly for the LSAT on my own this summer, and will take it next fall. I intend to send in application(s) at the beginning of my senior year. From what I've read on its website, I've also gathered that Penn Law has more of a close-knit academic community than most of the other T14s. Given the fact that I'm interested in working in antitrust/corporate law when I'm older (... at least I think I do at this point.) Due to the strength of both its law and business schools, and its location in a major city, Penn seems like the right choice. If I end up applying, it will probably be ED.</p>
<p>So I know it's impossible to chance without an actual LSAT score, but:</p>
<p>If I can keep my GPA around where it is now (3.85 cumulative, 4.0 in major), and aim for a 167-170 on the LSAT (I know I should shoot higher but I'm being realistic here), do I have a legitimate chance at getting accepted ED? I know it's extremely selective but as of now (and yes I know things can change) it's where I want to be.</p>
<p>I have good activities/internships, if that has any real influence.</p>
<p>Not really sure if this is somehow unique to Penn. Many top law schools have this quality.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure that the strength of its business makes a difference in terms of biglaw placement, though Penn is certainly top-notch for corporate law hiring. However, there are other law schools that either equal or supersede Penn’s biglaw placement: YLS, HLS, SLS, CLS, Chicago, and NYU. </p>
<p>Think long and hard about where you decide to do ED, and make sure you have good reasons for doing so; by doing ED, you substantially limit the amount of merit aid a school would be willing to throw at you. Moreover, the reasons you currently cite are hardly sufficient to warrant an ED application to Penn.</p>
<p>^I understand that strength of the business program doesn’t make a difference in terms biglaw placement. I would like to supplement my legal education with business courses at a top business school. However negligible a difference it might make, I feel this would be an asset in terms of pursuing a career in corporate / antitrust law.</p>
<p>I’m also aware of the strength of the other law schools you’ve listed, particularly NYU, where I’m currently an undergraduate. Should I attend law school, I want to be in a major city, which opens up Penn, Chicago, NYU, and Columbia among others. I know this shouldn’t doesn’t matter a whole lot, but since I’ve grown up in New York and am now going to university here, a change of city would be nice. But I don’t want to go to school TOO far, considering I want to live in the Northeast upon graduation.</p>
<p>I’m aware that I have a LOT of thinking to do, and that I’m still young and many things can change; I just wanted some feedback on my current ideas. </p>
<p>I still have a few questions:</p>
<p>I’ve heard that one stands a better chance of admission by applying early in the cycle; would it make more sense to apply to multiple schools early, or do ED at Penn if I decide that is what’s right? Am I allowed to submit other applications if I have a Penn ED application out?</p>
<p>Anyways, all else aside, am I on track for a T14?</p>
<p>Please don’t be too harsh Thanks for any feedback/advice</p>
<p>first get your lsat score back. But if you do get a 167 on your LSAT, an ED application to U Penn may be the best way to go.<br>
I’ve sort of been a proponent of applying ED to certain schools like Duke, UVA, Mich and Penn, if your LSAT score was in the 166-168 range as I felt that was about the bare minimum LSAT score you needed for admittance.<br>
but an ED application can certainly limit your merit aid. So I wouldn’t do ED unless you can financially swing it.
btw- my own kid didn’t listen to my advice.</p>
<p>just read your post. Yes Apply EARLY. Aim to get all applications in by October. (sept is even better)</p>
<p>If your grades remain in the 3.7+ range and you can score at least 169, you should do ok with top schools. If in 166 - 168, look to top 25 schools and consider FT/PT program at Georgetown.</p>
<p>LSAT counts too much in terms of law school acceptance, so it does no real good to speculate. Just study hard for the exam and do the best you can.
Good luck.</p>
<p>–finally: yes you can apply ED to Penn and RD to other schools at the same time. But if you get the ED acceptance, you must withdraw from the other schools.</p>
<p>No. The corporate jobs you’re looking for will hire you the summer after your 1L year. Thus, the hiring decision will be based on your 1L grades; your 1L grades come from a set, standardized curriculum, which doesn’t contain business courses. Some law schools allow you to take an elective or two as 1L, but I don’t know which ones do that, and whether taking a business-related elective would be beneficial for hiring (I really don’t think it would).</p>
<p>marny1: Thanks for your very informative post. Standardized tests have never been my forte, and considering the difficulty/importance of the LSAT, I’m certainly going to bust my butt studying this summer. I’ve already started familiarizing myself with the exam and will start studying rigorously in May. </p>
<p>flowerhead: I’m not deadset on corporate employment. What I should’ve said is that I’m interested in pursuing a career in the economics/business aspect of the legal profession. Maybe it sounds corny but I’m interested in helping this country become a fairer and more efficient place for people to work. While corporate law is more lucrative, I feel like work in the public sector might be more enjoyable/rewarding. I honestly don’t know though. I still have a lot to worry about before I’m at that point. Thanks for your input.</p>
<p>Also, finances are not necessarily a concern.</p>
<p>There’s a huge difference between a 167 and a 170. With a 3.85, a 167 would require an ED app at Penn. 168 would give you a shot at NYU, which should be supplemented with an ED application. With a 169, you would be looking at an OK shot at NYU RD, and CLS also becomes within reach. With a 170-172, I think CLS and NYU become serious contenders, and you could get money from Penn RD (as well as other really great law schools). Anything higher and you have a shot anywhere, with a good chance of getting money at CLS, Penn, etc.</p>
<p>When you apply ED, and if you get in, you lose merit aid opportunities because a) the school has no incentive to use merit aid to entice you into attending b) you can’t use merit aid offers from other schools as leverage, since you’d be bound to the school to which you got in ED. Always be careful with ED.</p>
<p>And marny mentioned Michigan ED, but that program places you in the summer-start semester, which is another factor to consider.</p>
<p>^By saying “a 167 would require an ED app at Penn”, are you implying that this is the only way I could get in with that score? What would be a good, but realistic score to shoot for, then, not just for Penn but all the schools you mentioned above?</p>
<p>I know merit aid goes down the tube with ED, but as I said, money’s not my primary concern.</p>
<p>ny- as my kid is now going through the actual application/admittance process, I’m not going to be that specific with the info I share- but I will reiterate the info I have already given in the past.</p>
<p>my d got a 167 and I have been “tracking” the success of applicants who had similar stats to my own kid for the past few years. Her GPA was in the 3.75+ range. My observations were that kids with 166-168 needed that extra boost to get into a T-14. (and honestly, this year seems more competitive- so I don’t know how well the 166/3.9 student will fare in getting a T-14 acceptance) .
the extra boost some of the applicants had included “elite” UG school- significant work experience- early application (by October)- applying ED–or a type of under represented background which could include geographic location, racial, military etc.etc.
What I am saying IMO- is if you are a typical new yorker (we’re from the nyc area too)
and you have a 167 and a 3.8gpa, I think your best bet to gain admittance to U Penn is to apply ED.</p>
<p>I suggest you follow the trends on the law school numbers website. When this admission cycle is done, check out the U Penn results and check the graph- my educated guess is that most of the 167’s accepted, had a bit of help either by ED, URM/ geographic diversity, military or something else that made their application stand out from all others with similar stats.</p>
<p>my d already has 2 T-14 acceptances with her 167 LSAT. One being from Cornell- where she was an undergrad. And she is extremely happy with her other choice. (I’m not being so forthcoming with additional info). So a 167 still carries enough weight to get a T-14 acceptance- but that too could change over the next year or so. My d also has significant work experience and I pestered her enough so that most of her applications were submitted in October. </p>
<p>study hard- hope for a 170 LSAT- and you’ll have alot of options.
good luck.<br>
marny</p>
Thanks for any feedback/advice</p>