Hello! I’m new to this site, and thank you in advance for the help I know I will get from you as from my observation some of you are so experienced and helpful! So, here I am, ready (or almost ready) to apply to law school. My basic stats are 3.73 in UGPA and 171 in LSAT, and I have a little more than a year post-graduate full time work experience. I know these stats are probably not great for schools in T14, but a T14 school IS my target. I plan on retaking LSAT in Nov. Now, I’d like input from you on 1) What ED school would you say I should apply? I will have to apply with the LSAT score I have now as the Nov score won’t be in time for most ED applications I believe. 2) What’s your view on what schools I should consider my reach, target and safety (if there’s one) within the T14 in regular round? and 3) What would be a good LSAT score for a T6 school given my GPA. Thank you very much!
Apps are cheap. Blanket the T14.
@Demosthenes49 Yes that I can do, in the regular admission cycle. Thank you for your input. Anything else?
Unless you are wealthy, or instate for UVa, do not ED. I’d skip Stanford and Yale. Throw a lottery app to HLS if you have the cash, but odds are really slim.
Law schools are primarily a numbers game, so being above both medians (GPA & LSAT) is a huge plus.
Send e-mails to all of the T14 for which a 171 is median or better and ask for a fee waiver (Columbia on down). Include a few in the 15-20 range where you are likely to earn a fair amount of merit money, and that you can use to negotiate up.
Many law schools are “rolling admissions.” It is to your advantage to apply early rather than later, for some schools it is even more advantageous than ED. You should be able to get into few T14s with 171 LSAT. You probably could get some merit at Cornell, Georgetown, Berkeley.
Based on my daughter’s results, having good LORs and essays can also help. She had all of her apps in by early Oct.
not sure I agree about merit aid at Berkeley, which is GPA-heavy, and the fact that the OP is under Cal’s median. OTOH, if one meets Cal’s social-demographic preferences…
@bluebayou I think I may be the least qualified tor Cal’s social-demographic preferences… LOL Yes, GPA is my biggest concern. It barely meets the 50% cut for any of the T14. LSAT however even at the current 171 (and am still thinking about retaking it in Nov) is above most of T14 schools’ 75% cut. I know I’m pretty much out of running for the top 3 unless I can get an exceptional LSAT score in my second try. In any case, does my stats make me a so-called “splitter”? And how do you navigate the process better as a splitter?
As for scholarship money, do I really have any chance to get meaningful amount of money from any of the T14s? Of course, it’d be nice to have it! With my stats however I am sort of giving up that hope. And that’s why I am considering ED to a school one tier down YHS. Not a good idea?
Thank you all for the advice so far. Keep it coming please!
The only way to get money from a T-14 is to:
- Apply early in the cycle (more money in the merit aid pot)
- Receive an aid offer from at least one school
- Shop that offer to the best school you get into, to see if they match
- If yes, go, if not, weigh the difference between cash/job prospects, and go to the best bet
Regarding “apply early in the cycle”, I’m in a dilemma. Should I apply early using my current score, or should I retake and apply a little late with a new and potentially higher score?
Check NYU’s current medians. I think that you have an excellent shot at NYU law, but not for merit money.
With a 3.73 GPA & a 171 LSAT score and almost 2 years of post undergraduate work experience, apply to Harvard, Chicago, Columbia, NYU, Penn, Michigan, Virginia, Duke, Northwestern. Check out Northwestern’s ED.
Of course, for scholarship options, add four or five schools.
Different schools’ merit pools of money are sometimes targeted at applicants’ backgrounds or areas of interest. It’s impossible to know whether you will get money without knowing 1) the various merit funds available at any given school and 2) what your work/ interest/ undergraduate / other background is.
Merit usually isn’t one vast ocean of cash. Often it’s smaller pools established by alumni donations to target specific types of students.
Northwestern University law awards scholarships of $120,000 ($40,000 per year) to ALL accepted ED applicants.Tuition & fees run about $64,000 per year.
Northwestern’s medians were 168 LSAT score & 3.77 GPA.
NYU’s medians were 169 LSAT score & 3.78 GPA.
Among the T-14 law schools, Cornell had the lowest median GPA at 3.74.
In the ideal world, you’d have two numbers above a law school’s median, but most applicants to not.
Yes. Apply earlier, and spend time on the supplemental questions which many revolve around, ‘Why this school’? For example a few years ago, a splitter from Florida answered a ‘Why Cornell?’ prompt as, "I’ve never experienced snow before’. Ugh!. Wrong (and stupid) answer. Rejected.
In the past few years, absolutely; a 171 is higher than some T14’s 75th percentile. Law schools are willing to pay for high number(s); obviously, the higher the better. However, law school apps have started increasing after a decade of decline, so law schools may be becoming a little less generous.
Yes, apply earlier but not ED early, unless you want to try for the big money at Northwestern.
@Dustyfeathers I suppose I’m a pretty “stereotypical” law school applicant. My undergraduate major was polisci, and I’m not URM or of any non-conventional background. At this point, my interest (if it can be called an “interest” :)) is to go for big law or federal clerkship after graduation.
@publisher With GPA being lower than the median for most of the T14, I’m hoping to use high LSAT scores to make that up. While the score I have is higher than 12/T14 schools’ median and 9/T14 of their 75 percentile, I feel like that’s not sufficient to be competitive for admission to T6 or for scholarship money for the rest. That’s why I want to retake LSAT. However, is this just my “wishful thinking”? Would a few more points in LSAT change the big picture? Should I forget about retaking and instead trying to take advantage of early applications (or even ED)?
@evergreen101: Although my information may be a year old, a 171 is not above median for 12 of the top 14 law schools as Stanford & Columbia have medians of 171; Yale & Harvard law schools have median LSAT scores of 173.
Your GPA is below median for all T-14 law schools (although only slightly for Cornell = 3.74 versus your 3.73). Therefore you would be a splitter at 10 of the T-14 law schools.
Your best option is to retake the LSAT as even a one point improvement to 172 will improve your chances for admission to Columbia. However, unlike many law school consultants, I see a very slight risk in retaking for one with a 3.73 undergraduate GPA if you forego EDing as there is no assurance of earning a higher score while sacrificing any ED admissions advantage… My cautionary advice would be different if you had a 3.80 undergraduate GPA.
Consider whether or not you are willing to pay about $55,000 to $60,000 per year total COA for a T-14 law degree from Northwestern University. If admitted ED, you would receive a $120,000 scholarship spread out evenly over the three years of law school (and thereby reducing your total cost of attendance to $25,000 per year for tuition, fees & books plus living & travel expenses of about $30,000 per year).
Remember that the total cost for three years would most likely be offset by one or two summers of lucrative clerking at a biglaw firm.
If admitted ED to Northwestern University law school, your total cost of attendance would be about $165,000 to $180,000 depending upon your cost-of-living expenses. If hired by biglaw, your first year salary should be at least $180,000 plus bonus.
Otherwise, you can apply to Georgetown, GWU, Vanderbilt & any regional law school that appeals to you in hope of securing a full tuition & fees scholarship and possibly (not in the DC area obviously) accompanied by lower cost-of-living expenses than the elegant & expensive North Shore area of Chicago. If cost sensitive, then you will need a top 20% class rank and law review to earn equivalent biglaw options.
@evergreen101: So now it would be helpful to get some feedback from you regarding thoughts about law schools within the T-14 as well as regional law schools which appeal to you.
Also, do you have substantial undergraduate student loans ?
Hmmmmm…
LSAT Medians (Fall '17):
Columbia 171
Chicago 170
NYU 169
Penn 169
Michigan 169
Duke 169
UVa 169
Northwestern 168
Boalt 167
Cornell 167
GULC 167
@bluebayou: Not sure that I see your point as you show that OP is above median for only 10 of the T-14 law schools just as I wrote.
If you included the full quote: I wrote that OP is not above median LSAT score for Harvard, Yale ,Stanford & Columbia.
OP’s LSAT score is 171.
If I misread your post, I apologize. But I interpreted:
“a 171 is not above median for 12 of the top 14” to mean that
a 171 is therefore only above 2 of the T14.
OP’s post #13 above asserted that his LSAT score of 171 is above 12/14 T-14 medians, which is incorrect.
P.S. That is why quoting the entire sentence would have clarified matters.