<p>I teach first grade, and I have to assign 2 projects each year! I think it's ridiculous...the school I teach in thinks that parents actually like this hand on, creative family time. I think if projects must be assigned, than teachers should do them in class with their students. There are competitive, over the top parents who love this stuff, but I believe they are in the minority. All my complaints fall on deaf ears.
The worst, however, are the high school group projects. One of my daughters has one free day a week to meet with others and ends up doing a large portion of the work. It makes me crazy...</p>
<p>The project thing continues into college. A well-ranked public university near us has majors that are totally group-project crazy. A friend of mine attended as an adult, and I saw what she went through. I don't want that for my kids. Every time, someone (or more than one) plays the clueless slacker, and sometimes someone wants to play The Manager and not listen to anybody else's ideas.</p>
<p>I see so many of my sentiments here. The group projects are, I agree, the worst. OneMom is right on target with her description of group dynamics.
The best "project" my daughter had was when her Advanced Math teacher had them take old SAT tests and dissect them by types of problems and solutions. Now that was useful. And sometimes she would have them write about math topics to try to get the language types more interested (and I am sure to help their grades), but no huge presentations and poster boards. Oddly enough she is Teacher of the Year this year. Hmmm.</p>
<p>The projects...ARGGHHHH</p>
<p>Especially with just one weekend to do it...even without SCHOOL stuff going on...you can have family events, concerts, weddings, siblings games, sports, etc</p>
<p>I have sent letters to my Ds school saying just that....explaining that even with three weekends to do a protect, on each and every weekend, of the 4 kids who tried to get together:</p>
<p>parents would insist that Sunday was regular homework and family day</p>
<p>for two kids two of the Saturdays (of course not the SAME Saturday) was filled with sports</p>
<p>one kid had a weekend family reunion- of course on a different weekend</p>
<p>it was a mess</p>
<p>but I think actually showing the school, even with 3 weekend, it was nearly impossible to get the kids together, and it does seem enough parents have complained, that the projects are fewer this year and much less involved...</p>
<p>so, try and rally some other parents to send in the logistical problems involved...no need to argue the merits of the projects, the school will probably feel the need to defend them, but if you talk about the difficulty getting the kids together, and show the quantity, some real numbers, along with driving, hours involved, etc., you might see some change</p>
<p>as for college....argghhh</p>
<p>An additional problem with projects at the middle school level is that some of the students are not yet allowed to be at a friend's home without adult supervision (often for very good reasons). It used to drive me crazy that when three kids would try to get together at my house to do a project, I couldn't leave to pick up kid B because kid C had already arrived and was not allowed to be at my house without an adult present. Arrrgh!!</p>
<p>I'm not a teacher, but my friend is a 9th grade World History teacher and he has told me in the past that he would use projects in his class, until he had his own kids. Then he understood, NO MORE PROJECTS!</p>
<p>I concur the Group projects are the worst.</p>
<p>i really wish the schools spent more time having the kids learn how to really research and write papers than these stupid projects. i know someone above mentioned about projects continuing in college, but i really think that is the exception. colleges want kids who can write and a lot of courses expect papers. these stupid projects do little to prepare the kids for college and, in my opinion, take away time that could be better be used on research and writing skills.</p>
<p>I used to hate the effing science fair when I was in grade school. I concur that projects, esp group projects, are the most stupidest (correct English) thing since diversity training!</p>
<p>I despise projects, too, and thankfully my third-grader hasn't really had any yet. The girls sure did, though. Last year the eighth-grader had multiple group projects and the teacher assigned her every time to this girl whose mother worked in the school and was the most competitive women I've ever met. She had her grubby hands on every project because she had to always see what my kid was up to. The last project was a disaster. Three of the four girls worked hard and did a great job. Then one of them got wind of the fact that meddling mom's daughter was not doing her part of the project but, rather, had done an entire project herself without adding their names -- thus leaving them with 3/4 of a project and no way to pass. So they went to the teacher privately and she told them she didn't believe that would happen, but that they could do the other quarter of the project and if the girl tried to hand in her own project, she would (a) accept the project only from the other three girls and (b) fail the girl because cooperation was part of the grade. She kept her word when the girl, smirking, brought in a mega-spectacular completed project in her name only. The teacher grew ten feel in my daughter's estimation after that.</p>
<p>Just a thought....are group projects part of the curriculum for teacher training?</p>
<p>We despise projects in our house too. We are also craft-challenged, but more than that dislike the fact that most of these projects really don't teach much if anything. The most disturbing trend in our district has been that now these artsy projects are required for science and math classes too. Those courses used to be my kids' only refuge from 3-sided posters, diaramas, edible models, rap song compositions, and the like. </p>
<p>D has a chemistry art project due tomorrow. She spent hours on it this weekend, but unfortunately it still looks like she just slapped it together. I think the project idea was cute, but I know it taught my D nothing.</p>
<p>csshsm,
I agree that projects are WAAY too much work for the amount of knowledge gained. And group projects are the worst because the diligent kids always get taken advantage of. To any teachers here, why are there so many projects? Is it because it is a way to easily add bulk to a grade?</p>
<p>Regarding homecoming, we have had the oddest experience at our hs. It is the same every year, too. The teachers seem to give EXTRA work during homecoming week, even knowing the kids are participating in the school spirit activities. My poor daughter was up until past midnight a couple of days doing substantial homework in each of six subjects, never mind practicing for an important local <em>teacher-sponsored</em> music audition. When I complained to my college son, he told me they do it on purpose! They assign a ridiculous amount of work during homecoming week to see who puts their work first and who puts social activities first! How unreasonable is that?! Don't those teachers have any school spirit? Why must it be viewed as a competition for the students' time? Thank goodness it's over for us!</p>
<p>group projects build team work and all that stuff. I'm sure that's what's fed to the teachers during their schooling. But I agree that group projects are awful. It's practically impossible to find a time when everyone can meet together. Often it turns into dividing it up and then quickly combining it before it's due, sometimes that day at school.</p>
<p>My worst "project" was senior year of high school, in IB History HL, my teacher had us do "interactive notebooks", where we take notes on the right side of our notebook, and do something "creative" on the left side to help us understand them. I, and many other people, just went on the computer the night before and printed out stuff. Notes on Woodrow Wilson? Google Image Search and grab the first picture and hit print. Ridiculous.</p>
<p>In all fairness, my kids had one particular math teacher in middle school who offered optional projects at the end of each chapter (Chicago math). These were usually extension activities or projects visualizing a numerical concepts. They were done individually and were completely optional, so I felt that they were appropriate in scope, probably enriching and helpful to those kids who needed a few extra credit points.</p>
<p>Usually though, I cringe at the thought of projects. I want to be able to USE my dining room table! :D</p>
<p>I think that one rationale for giving projects (at least the one I heard the most at my kid's old school) is the mantra that kids learn differently - some by looking, some by listening and some by DOING and that this is one way to recognize children who demonstrate their intelligence in different ways. </p>
<p>At this school, much as I liked the education and the teachers there in so many ways, I had all of the issues with these projects that everyone has mentioned, including having to drive an hour to a kid's house, and another hour home, parents who did their kid's projects or teachers who expected them to "help" (making the kids who really did do it themselves feel as if their effort didn't measure up) and all the inevitable conflicts with ECs and family commitments when it came to group efforts.</p>
<p>I will always remember a Native American village scene that one "second grader" in S's class did that could have fit in seamlessly with the displays at the Museum of Natural History! Suuuure, a seven year old had much to do with that project! A+!!!!</p>
<p>I do not like projects. I won't add my griping because it wouldn't be anything new to this thread.
I wonder if one reason for an occasional project is so that the teacher has something to display in the classroom. Even though they are not fun to make, they can be fun to look at.
Sometimes we have to present information in condensed form. Certain kinds of projects can help kids learn to sort out what is important to present and how to present it effectively, thus developing communication skills.</p>
<p>I will gripe about group projects and group work generally. Our school district adopted a new math curriculum (CPM, I think) where kids are supposed to work in groups to figure out new concepts. I understand the notion of kids should understand the 'why' as much as the 'how', but usually the group turns to one student and says "okay, how do we do this?" Most do not contribute constructively. Math class should be about math. If working in groups is an important skill, give instruction specifically in that skill as part of the curriculum. Don't just assume skills will develop if kids are left to their own devices.</p>
<p>Yes, kids learn differently and no doubt that is part of the rationale. But wouldn't this mean that kids should have a CHOICE in what to do? When I've seen this come up before, it seems like those who like the project-approach are always the distinct minority. And yet projects seem to predominate when assignments are made and frequently there is no option.</p>
<p>As I said earlier, I think it is a matter of time. It takes more time to effectively review and critique a piece of writing. However kids best learn, they all will need to know how to write and very little seems to be done, at least in these parts, unless it is an AP course where the course description and the outside test necessitate an ability to write. That's my impression from talking to people, anyway; we bailed out of the system for this and a number of other reasons so I can hardly speak authoritatively about the high school level. </p>
<p>I was talking this morning about this thread with my daughter in college. She said I had to mention her favorite example of teachers-gone-wild. Her middle school history class was studying Rome. The class spent an entire class period cutting little pieces of construction paper. Having spent all the time alloted to that, they moved on to something else the following day. The bits were never combined into a mosaic, which would have made more sense in an art class to begin with. Gee, just look at a few pictures of Roman mosaics and get on with it!</p>
<p>I'm a high school teacher with a high schooler in the household. We DESPISE projects!!!! She just finished a group project last week and an individual one this week, which totally consumed her weekend. She keeps commenting on how she hates school because it has taken over her life. The teachers who usually assign huge projects most often do not have kids of their own and/or have no concept of exactly how much time it takes to complete their projects. I cannot wait until my last one graduates! My den is presently covered with the debris from last night's project, and I can guarantee that she will probably come home with something else major to do within a day or two. One teacher even assigned a huge project due right after prom weekend last year, never mind that AP exams fell in that same week!</p>
<p>I NEVER assign projects in my classes because I value family life and down-time too much for all students.</p>
<p>mom58, is it CMP or CPM? Both are questionable. <a href="http://mathematicallycorrect.com/programs.htm%5B/url%5D">http://mathematicallycorrect.com/programs.htm</a></p>
<p>The mathematicallycorrect site is pretty good in exploring the math wars. You are not the first to complain about the constructivist approach. Mathematicians also complain about it. </p>
<p>Reminds me when I complained that the text my daughter was using was poor. I was told, well yes, but this is the text that has been adopted but don't worry, they didn't use the text that much anyway! Just wonderful for those, who like my daughter, is a very visual learner. Where was the concern for learning styles then, huh?</p>
<p>For a great critique of the constructivist methodology of American primary and secondary education, see Hirsch, The Schools We Need and Why We Don't Have Them.</p>
<p>I suspect part of the reason teachers assign group papers and group presentations has nothing to do with cooperation. Could it be that there are fewer papers to grade when four kids are on a project rather than one? Would YOU rather grade 24 papers or 6 papers? I wonder....</p>