No different from previous generations. When a leader and role model for many is involved in thousands of lawsuits, what message does that send? When politicians and businesspeople make unkeepable promises, what message does that send? Or if they make a headline promise that leaves obscure sounding loopholes that they later slip through, what message does that send?
On a more mundane level, generations of parents have driven cars faster than the speed limit and rolled through stop signs, setting examples of such for their kids when they learn to drive.
@yourmama The microwave attached to the fridge rule is in force at both my kids universities and it makes perfect sense. A school can partner with one provider and clear one model of microwave that they know meets the university safety requirements. Without that rule, they could not monitor the near countless number of microwave varieties and be like it was when I went to school and banned them all. This way they’ve accommodated the desire to have a microwave by approving the one model. (However, the cynic in me says they rent the fridge micro unit for $179/year and if you went to buy a refrigerator of similar size at Best Buy you’d pay $169).
However, these are just the specifics of the issue I’m talking about. When the rule says you can apply to 1 ED school, every year you will see posts from parents asking how to get around it.
and finally @ucbalumnus is there a difference when a parent tells you how to break the rules vs. some personally far removed adult? I think that there should be a difference.
After reading further, it seems like you are more referring to people questioning authority. And I do think that it’s more generational. My parents didn’t question authority nearly as much as my generation does. And my kids generation had been taught to ask questions. That’s a good thing IMO but it can sometimes be frustrating in some contexts as well.
I do think that if kids and parents are told why some of the silly seeming rules exist, and agree with the validity, then they are less likely to try to get around the rules.
Or they are going to make it create something that allows them to have the rule changed.
I’m 62. My parents taught me to question authority, and to consider the difference between legal and moral. They taught me in some situations it’s inappropriate, rude,or self-defeating not to follow the rules, even if they’re nonsensical. And that in other situations rule breaking might be a moral imperative. We talked a lot about all this in my family of origin. I followed that example with my own kids.
I think it’s parents who are OVER involved. I can assure you, my parents knew nothing about my college dorm room. BTW, no thumbtacks because most rooms have cinder block walls.
There’s a difference between working in the regulatory compliance field which revolves around enforcement of government rules and regulations vs. working with college students.
If a former FBI agent gets a job at a local high school in their retirement, they might not be too well received if they employ FBI policies and procedures to deal with HS students. Likewise, a former regulatory compliance officer might not be too well received if they have the same disdain for college students who put a tack in the wall as they do for corporate management knowingly polluting a water supply for the sake of profit.
That said, I admit I’m often shocked by posts by parents who are (IMO) too involved in trying to make things easier for their college kid rather than letting them figure things out on their own. One that sticks out in my mind is a parent posting about how her daughter might go about getting a later time-slot to register for classes because the 7:00 a.m. slot she was given was too early in the morning for her.
Another was by the parent of an incoming Harvard student who said students were required to wait for all their suite-mates to arrive on move-in day before picking out their rooms and unpacking. The parent was wondering if there was a way the suite-mates could work it out ahead of time via social media. What really surprised me was the advice of some parents to just ignore the rule entirely and replace it with the he who gets there first wins rule.
No, it makes zero sense because it has nothing to do with the concern. If the concern is they only want a certain type of microwave for safety reasons, then say you can only use microwave “XYZ” regardless if it is attached to a fridge or anything. Having a microwave attached to fridge has nothing to do with nothing.
@1Dreamer my problem isn’t the kids. I expect kids to push boundaries. My problem (and apparently just mine) is the parent who encourages their kids to think that rules don’t apply to them, they are for somebody else, or that rules are some mad concoction of the machine, put in place because they aren’t as smart as you are. As long as you “smartly” go around the rules, that’s ok.
I really don’t care too much about the walls or the refrigerator/micro things, it is the idea that if we teach our kids (who are now young adults) that rules are optional if you are smarter then the rule’s author, you are going to have a tough time when you enter the “real world.” Then we’ll have young adults wondering why they didn’t get the promotion that they were looking for, or worse yet, why they are asked to flourish elsewhere. I’ve worked for 5 different companies and every one of them pushed a core value, credo, mission, etc. that talks about integrity. At all of them, if you were caught disregarding a ‘rule’ because you thought it didn’t apply to you, there would be consequences.
It’s probably because it’s extremely common for kids to have fridges. The microwave/fridge combo pack probably puts less strain on the electrical system. Many schools handle this issue by limiting the number of electronics allowed in a room.
@yourmomma I certainly hope you aren’t a Loosier, that glorified daycare in Bloomington. Sure it makes sense. The only microwave that they have approved is the model that they rent as part of a microwave/refrigerator program they have established. It isn’t the fact that is attached to the refrigerator. You can’t get it not attached to the refrigerator. That model is not sold separately. It is one integrated unit. As an IU grad, I may have to draw you a picture. Or maybe use smaller words :))
I can’t imagine I’m the only one with kids at universities (2 very well respected ones) that have this agreement with Bedloft. The school has evaluated that combo and determined that it’s maximum load on the electrical system is acceptable
My daughter’s school contracts with Bedloft but they gave out fridge and microwave specs that would still work in the room so it wasn’t necessary to rent the combo.
In general though, I agree with you @BrianBoiler. Seems like it is the parents wanting to help their kids skirt around an “inconvenient” rule.
I know it makes me ancient but I managed to get an undergraduate degree without ever owning or renting a fridge or microwave. (Microwaves were not in general use back then, and the rental fee for a fridge was over my budget. Happily, my roommate also came from modest means and she agreed that there were better things to do with $50 or whatever then rent a fridge. Buy one? Neither of us could afford it).
I honestly don’t understand the food mania/pathology of today’s college kids. Unless there are Costco sized boxes of “healthy snacks” (i.e. granola bars and breakfast bars) sitting on their desks they will starve. There is a mom in my town who drives an hour each way, every other week to stock her kid’s dorm fridge with snacks.
Kid has diabetes? yes, needs a fridge. Kid is celiac and needs specially prepared foods without cross contamination? Yes, kid needs a fridge and a microwave. The kid on a full meal plan who buys a latte at Starbucks every morning and goes out for sushi twice a week even though there are uneaten meals on that plan? With a fridge that’s fully stocked with energy drinks and fresh produce? Parents haven’t eaten out in two years to pay for college but the kid gets regular Whole Foods deliveries? This I don’t get.
I think it’s a matter of character. Good and bad character are not confined to certain generations. You can read or hear news every day about famous people in the US who think the rules don’t apply to them. And I know several nonfamous individuals who think tax evasion and Medicaid fraud are perfectly fine; these are white men ranging in age from 92 to 60.
@blossom I didn’t have either fridge or microwave either. I did have the full 19 a week meal plan, so it was fine. And a hot pot (not allowed not in most dorms).
I do think more kids have smaller meal plans now though. That might be part of why they care more about fridges and microwaves.
“The rules not applying thing is sooooo not a new thing. In any place I’ve ever worked, it’s been the white haired generation that most often seems to be saying either the rules don’t apply or they should have special rules.”
Oh, I see this all the time where I live. It’s always the older people (not talking ancient) who think the common courtesies and rules don’t apply to them.
On the fridge/microwave thing, I think one of my kids’ colleges is smart about it. Each dorm room is provided with a combo fridge/microwave for free (read baked into the tuition/r&b ). Nothing else is allowed. Also makes it fair to those of different economic means. Bet it helps eliminate a ton of phone calls to the housing dept. about people wanting exceptions, too.
I think some are too certain these “others” think rules don’t apply to them. You’re creating an “us vs them” when most people have some things they follow and some they don’t, times when they are ethical and times when they aren’t. We all probably justify the times when we bend the rules.
The dorm fridge/microwave thing is generally about electrical overload. (I worked on a project in housing.) I did teach my kids to consider the larger purpose behind rules.
But the thing is, I worry more about the larger ethical considerations that make for a fair and just society. My family did teach me to question rules when it matters, much as @alh notes. We wouldn’t have protests, revolution, change, defense of the weak and more, if we all just sat back and said, “Well, the rules say…” Think about it.
My rule for parenting was to teach my kids to obey the rules,and then, when they broke them, to show mercy, because I did the same thing.
Oh, and I distinctly remember being told not to poke holes in the dorm walls way back in 1981. I also remember upperclasswomen (I went to Mount Holyoke) telling us that when you did use tacks on your walls, you needed to fill the holes with toothpaste, an excellent spackle, when you moved out.
Lookingforward- your point is well taken. However- parents ask (quite rightly) about campus security. The college reps say all the right things- you need a swipe to get in the door of the dorms, overnight guests need to register and leave a driver’s license with the security guard, you can’t get into the library or dining halls without a campus ID, etc. All the right things.
And every college we toured inevitably had a fire door at the back of a dorm propped open with a big rock-- and when we’d ask the kids who lived there “what’s up with the door in the back?” they’d all answer, “it’s such a pain when someone comes to visit- you have to sign them in and out, so our friends know we leave the door in back open for them”.
Really? The college invests millions of dollars in swipe cards and security guards at the front only to have a propped door circumvent the system?
So I’m not sure bringing in ethical considerations is a good example here. Most of the rules that college kids object to have nothing to do with equity or justice. But- as we all know- safety is a pain in the neck. Security is inconvenient. Protecting personal property with locks and doors is more cumbersome than just leaving your stuff out in the open.
But do your kids really want to go to a college with no security or safeguards? Or- as you concede- concerns about electrical overload???
). Nothing else is allowed. Also makes it fair to those of different economic means. Bet it helps eliminate a ton of phone calls to the housing dept. about people wanting exceptions, too.