Am I too dumb to do well at top universities?

Applying to College
1

<p>I am kind of worried that I will not be able to get good grades at any top school because I am the type of person that works really hard and doesn't necessarily get everything right from the beginning... For example, I only scored a 1170 on my first SAT practice test.. (650 CR 520 Math) Recently, though, I discovered that I received a score of 1450 (720 CR 730 Math) on the May SAT. I took many practice tests and drilled myself for several weeks.<br>
This also occurs in my high school as well. When I study I can do as well as the brightest students in my grade but, yet, I don't comprehend the concepts as quickly as they do... but don't get me wrong I still understand ideas at a faster rate than the majority of my classmates.. I am not that dim but yeah.. what do you guys think?</p>

<p>Also FYI, I will not be majoring in any engineering, math, and physics.</p>

2

<p>ya, too dumb....skip college all together ;). Actually, the better the college, the higher the grade inflation.</p>

3

<p>Well, if you're capable of working yourself to death for an additional four years (and that appeals to you), go for it. On the other hand, it might be advantageous to find a college where most classes are taught at a level with which you are comfortable.</p>

4

<p>You scored a 720 CR and a 730 Math on the SAT. You are not dumb.</p>

<p>You will probably want to avoid schools that are known for being cut throat or academically competitive.</p>

<p>You will be fine, I think.</p>

5

<p>I think I am kind of similar to you. I don't think I'm "smart", but I do work hard to get to where I am (in the top 10 out of a school with 300+ people). Honestly, I think you will be totally fine at any school as long as you work hard because no matter how inherently smart you are, you can still get an F if you don't do anything at all. </p>

<p>Also, the SAT practice tests tend to be harder than the actual test, so don't be so pessimistic.</p>

6

<p>you're probably unaware of how hard other people work.</p>

7

<p>when you study, you do brilliantly, right??</p>

<p>that means you're SMART!!</p>

<p>i don't believe in all that "naturally brilliant/genius" crap. yes, some ppl do catch on concepts really quickly, but the truth is, most ppl don't. they just do an excellent job at faking natural intelligence when they really just go home and pore over the subject material for hours.</p>

<p>example: a guy in my grade is amazing in every class...literally. he would always finish our ap physics hw the quickest last year and set the curve for every test. in ap lang this year, i heard he took a mock and got all 9's on his essays and a near-perfect MC score. in ap calc, he has never gotten less than a 100% on every test this year and our teacher has HARD tests. similarly, i've heard he excels in his ap foreign language class while the rest of the class struggles with a lousy teacher. </p>

<p>he also scored a 2390 on his sat. i'll admit, he is fairly smart. obviously. but is he truly a genius....more brilliant than the rest of us?</p>

<p>the answer is no. for one thing, he is always doing his hw in her spare time at school, whether its running to his next class early to work during passing periods, or working all the way through lunch, or even on the bus, he is incredibly efficient at getting most of his work done before he gets home. at home, this guy has set a rigid schedule of subjects to study each night (like 2 hours sat prep on tues and thurs, french on fridays, math on mondays, etc.)</p>

<p>he's been prepping for the sat's since 5th grade...learning vocab just for the sake of memorization...reading novels from cannon lists just to get ready for cr, working through practice math problems on every book he could find.</p>

<p>i admire him for his determination, perseverance, and dedication throughout all these years. clearly it has paid off as he excels in every class. but honestly, he is not naturally smart. if he hadn't put in all that work, he would not be able to do well at all. </p>

<p>his case is repeated several more times at my school, but most kids will never admit that they try to hard. he won't either actually, i only know his study habits cuz he happens to be a close friend.</p>

<p>obviously you've got the potential to excel (your sat's show that), even at the top universities. don't let other ppls' myths of "oh i didn't study at all for this test but somehow got a 98%" get to you and make you think just b/c you have to study, you're "too dumb". you're absolutely not. and don't trust those ppl trying to paint an illusion of their infallibile genius.</p>

<p>being smart isn't spontaneously absorbing information all around you. it physically isn't possibly to sleep through class and then ace every test unless someone is putting in extra work at home away from the prying eyes of his peers. so please don't let it get to you. everyone who is "smart" studies and works hard...to whatever extent.</p>

<p>if you got your 1450 with a minimal amount of work, i bet you could get a 1600 with the right amount of prep and the right kind. i went from a 195 (68 math, 62 reading) psat to a 235 (80 math, 76 reading) this year. does that mean i was an idiot last year? no, it just shows that my true potential is realized only with a little bit of studying. there is no being "smart" without working for it. natural geniuses are very rare, don't let the imposters get to you.</p>

<p>haha sry for this REALLY LONG rambling message....this is just something i've felt passionate about for some time.</p>

8

<p>


</p>

<p>Factually and unequivocally incorrect. Thanks for coming out, though.</p>

9

<p>" you're probably unaware of how hard other people work. "</p>

<p>I think this statement has a tonne of truth in it , so dont underestimate yourself.</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
Actually, the better the college, the higher the grade inflation.

[/quote]

That's not really a fair argument. Better colleges give better grades yes, but their students are also better. It's not like someone who gets Nondescript State U's average grade of a C would have gotten Elite U's average grade of an A-.</p>

11

<p>ash, your section actually gave me a bit of inspiration. I've always been a student who never tried for anything, but got angry when I never succeeded on a test. I have to realize what true hard work is, and hopefully soon</p>

12

<p>"Factually and unequivocally incorrect. Thanks for coming out, though."</p>

<p>You should really do research before you spout off...</p>

<p>National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities</p>

<p>Dartmouth</a> College GPA Trends
Brown</a> University GPA Trends
University</a> of Chicago GPA Trends
Columbia</a> University GPA Trends
Harvard</a> University GPA Trends
Stanford</a> University GPA Trends</p>

<p>Northern</a> Michigan University GPA Trends
Southwest</a> Missouri University GPA Trends
University</a> of North Carolina - Greensboro GPA Trends
Norfolk</a> State GPA Trends
My Alma Mater:
SUNY-Oswego</a> GPA Trends</p>

13

<p>"That's not really a fair argument. Better colleges give better grades yes, but their students are also better. It's not like someone who gets Nondescript State U's average grade of a C would have gotten Elite U's average grade of an A-."</p>

<p>I would buy that argument if there wasn't upward TRENDING of GPS's. However, the average Dartmouth Student isn't smarter than in the 1960's when the GPA was ~2.5 ish. At the elite top end schools, the student's CAN'T be getting any smarter, the tippy top of the IQ chain is still at the elite schools and there hasn't been an incredible shift of intelligence in the country, yet elite GPA's continue to soar.</p>

14

<p>tom, average IQ at top schools may not have changed but I'd argue academic work ethic has spiraled upward. At no time in our history have students been so GPA-centric (including myself). I would argue that, more than anything else, is the reason for rising GPAs.</p>

15

<p>Yes, tom, I think the students are getting smarter.</p>

<p>The IQ test has to be recalibrated every few decades to standardize an upward IQ trend back to its normal bell curve.</p>

<p>More financial aid, more awareness, larger population, larger international arena = greatly increased applicant pool</p>

<p>It's no longer the case that someone like a Al Gore can apply to one school - Harvard - and feel relatively safe; or that any "overachiever", with a few bake sales, volunteer hours, and a science fair, can reasonably expect to attend an Ivy.</p>

16

<p>ee33ee....I would argue that any increase in tippy top IQ is easily mitigated by schools new found need for diversity. At Harvard, the average SAT score for white or Asian males may have spiked to 1560, but the African American, American Indian and Hispanic SAT score of students who would never have been admitted 20-50 or more years ago are 200-300 points below that. At MIT, an African American has ~ a 1/3 chance of being accepted, compared to ~15% for all other and what do you want to bet the White and Asian males are ~10%. Not the most politically correct issue to point out, but true nonetheless. In </p>

<p>Since the SAT is an IQ score, the average IQ is easily even or even lower. Plus, even though grades are up, high school was harder 50 years ago. OK, maybe not at YOUR high School, I'm talking about schools as a whole in this country.</p>

17

<p>^
If I'm not reading this wrong....According to your theory, affirmative action negates any increases in the student body's achievement on standardized tests.</p>

<p>The only problem is... average test scores for top schools have constantly gone up over time.</p>

18

<p>And back to the OP...</p>

<p>If you are a hard worker you should do well at pretty much any school. People who are brilliant in HS sometimes fumble going to college when they have to learn how to study. You've already done that - the hard part. :)</p>

19

<p>^^^^^
You are reading it right. It's not theory, It's verifiable fact. And The only reason Scores have been increasing is because the SAT has been re-calibrated DOWN to compensate for the diminishing skills of high school juniors. Don't believe me? Take a look at the SAt scores for U-Michigan by race. Please, don't close your mind just becase someone says something that might be antithetical to what you have been lead to believe in school your entire life. Part of the process of reaching intellectual maturity is the ability to use reason and not emotion when analyzing an issue.
Discriminations:</a> University Of Michigan: Scofflaw!</p>

<p>"In the most recent year (2005), the median black admittee’s SAT score was 1160, versus 1260 for Hispanics, 1350 for whites, and 1400 for Asians. High school GPAs were 3.4 for the median black, 3.6 for Hispanics, 3.8 for Asians, and 3.9 for whites.......In terms of probability of admissions in 2005, black and Hispanic students with a 1240 SAT and a 3.2 high school GPA, for instance, had a 9 out of 10 chance of admissions, while whites and Asians in this group had only a 1 out of 10 chance."</p>

<p>This is why the average scores are increasing. Take your SAT score and subtract at least 100 points to convert to SAT 50 years ago. This is why I laugh when people poke fun at people like Al Gore and G-Bush SAT scores. By today's standards, they're 1,300+.</p>

<p>Recentered</a> SAT Yields Apples and Oranges - by Robert Holland - The Heartland Institute</p>

<p>"Since the averages had fallen from a starting point of 500 a half-century ago to 424 verbal and 478 math, recentering essentially added 80 points to the average verbal SAT score and 20 to the average math SAT score to bring them both back up to about 500. Different amounts were added to scores above and below the average. Previous years' scores were recomputed to convert them to the new scale, and mean averages after 1996 are also recentered."</p>

<p>Cunningham regards the College Board's press release touting a "30-year high" in math performance as "propaganda." Furthermore, he suggests, the Board’s policy recommendation that Advanced Placement classes be made more widely available is suspect. What may be needed more urgently than more Advanced Placement is improved preparation in basic math in the early grades, the Louisville education professor said.</p>

<p>Other critics have noted that the SAT itself has changed since the mid-1990s in ways that make it a less credible yardstick. Students must complete the math section in 60 minutes, rather than 90 minutes as was once the case, but they may use a calculator throughout the testing period. The Wall Street Journal reported last year that the writers of the SAT were checking how various demographic groups performed on various math questions. Some of the questions that stumped them were dropped.</p>

20

<p>sup tom</p>

<p>Affirmative action is over 40 years old, and I think it's apparent that today's minority is far more prepared than minorities from the 1960's</p>

<p>As for the average SAT scores, the simple fact is that more people are taking them. Thus, the average SAT score tells us nothing useful about the subset of top college students.</p>

<p>And high schools are easier today? Where'd you get that information? Despite the widely tauted shortcomings of education reform, we've still come a long way, even in such basic statistics as primary school enrollment. Now are you ignoring the heavy growth of AP classes, magnet schools, and the educational industry as a whole? Sure you can point to failing inner-city schools that are performing below 40-year-old standards, but again they are not representative of schools sending kids to top colleges, or even schools in general.</p>

<p>Yeah yeah, I concede there might be more "soft" factors coming into play like a small percentage MORE minorities, but the time has never been meritocratic: consider girls, an enormous portion of college-bound students, who were still being restricted in the 1960's.</p>