Amherst or Reed?

<p>In the top high schools in San Diego the LAC’s are relatively well known though it always depends on the level of sophistication of the parent or family. Reed is undoubtably a good school but no one here would ever consider it even close to the level of the top LAC’s(Williams,Amherst, Swarthmore,Pomona,CMC, etc.) Reed would be similar to Whitman or Colorado College but in the end everyone is free to choose what is best for their own situation. </p>

<p>Not at the level of CMC? You’re kidding. What strength, if any, does CMC have in humanities or sciences? In everything except economics and politics, CMC is a step down from Reed.</p>

<p>And I would NEVER compare CMC to places like Swarthmore. CMC is not even remotely focused on academics. Students who are attracted to CMC would suffer at Swat and the sorts, and vice versa.</p>

<p>Can’t make a judgement call towards Reed vs CMC, but as a Pomona student (and having sat in at classes at Swarthmore and Williams during their fly-ins), the humanities classes at CMC are just as fantastic. CMC may be well known for economics and politics, but they have an extremely robust and well developed philosophy, literature, and psychology department.</p>

<p>And honestly in my personal experience, Swarthmore didn’t strike me as being any more rigorous or intellectual than any of the several top 10 LAC’s I’ve visited. I think that they’re all comparable academically. </p>

<p>Int 95 you have no idea how silly you sound. I’m certainly not promoting Pomona or CMC since I view all the top ten as more or less interchangeable but do you realize that CMC and Pomona are the two most selective LAC’s in the country. Schools with a 10% acceptance rate enroll very strong students. At any rate all of these top schools are all of similar quality. Reed is a good school and much better than it’s ranking but still lags these schools by a significant margin. </p>

<p>I have no dog in this fight, so this is an unbiased view:</p>

<ul>
<li>Both Amherst and Reed are top-top-top-notch academically.</li>
<li>Amherst is a tad more prestigious, but not enough to make a difference in your decision.</li>
<li>Amherst is more preppy and probably has a few more moderates and conservatives on campus – which is more like what you’ll see in real life. But while Reed is basically radically left, I hear they are also tolerant of the views of non-nutjob-lefties. Hehe. Point is, I doubt you’d be uncomfortable at either school based on political leanings.</li>
</ul>

<p>In sum:</p>

<ul>
<li>Go with class/major fit and location. Both are great. You cannot make a wrong choice from an academic standpoint.</li>
</ul>

<p>Off-topic but: I think of Reed as being pretty similar to Grinnell. Is that a fair nominal assessment?</p>

<p>The Amherst acceptance rate this year was 13% and only trailed CMC and Pomona. Meanwhile Reed’s acceptance rate was 39.9%. The acceptance rate is by no means everything but this is a rather obvious choice. 13% versus 40% is a no brainer. Reed isn’t even a highly selective school as the objective numbers clearly demonstrate. </p>

<p>Acceptance rate has nothing to do with the quality of the education… unless the faculty are so unsure of themselves that the students end up teaching and leading lecture discussions.</p>

<p>I’d have to disagree about the selectivity thing. Amherst gets a lot more applications because it is more of a “one-LAC fits-all sort of school” than Reed is. It also advertises more. Both schools are of comparable academic quality. It’s just like when U’Chicago had around a 30-40% acceptance rate a few years back, and no one doubted its academic strengths compared to the much more selective Ivy League. Reed isn’t too keen about getting their name across, and a very select group applies there.</p>

<p>I would be the first to agree that absolute acceptance rate is not by itself that meaningful. However it does mean something. Carleton for instance suffers from arguably the worst location/climate in the entire USA but yet still has an acceptance rate of about half that of Reed. No one is suggesting Reed isn’t a good school but it is by definition not very selective and this accurately reflects that most top students do not favor Reed. The U of C acceptance rate back a few years just reflects the overall increased selectivity of all the top schools these days and further weakens the argument about Reed. At any there is just no rational basis to place Amherst and Reed in the same tier. </p>

<p>Yes, Reed’s peer schools are Grinnell, Carleton and the sorts. I really wouldn’t even bother to compare Reed to Amherst because these two schools have very different environments.</p>

<p>Um, @SAY, no I do not sound silly because you misinterpreted what I had said. I was commenting on neither CMC’s faculty nor the academic strength of its students (I am aware of how amazing CMC professors are): I was referring to the culture at CMC, which does not revolve around academics, and rather on partying and the sorts. If you deny this, I have to wonder whether you know anything about the school. CMC is also not as liberal as schools like Swarthmore and Smith, so a student who is attracted to Smith would probably suffer at CMC. CMC is a very good school indeed for a ‘practical’ student, and there is probably no LAC as ‘practical’ as CMC. </p>

<p>Also, as you can see on this thread, opinions on Reed are quite… diverse. Some consider its academics to be no less than those at Princeton; others, such as you, dismiss it as part of an intellectual underclass (Reed’s ranking is absolutely irrelevant to this discussion btw). The former group, however, is actually familiar with Reed, and doesn’t just know OF Reed. If you really knew Reed, you would realize that although Reed has its flaws, its academics are second to none.</p>

<p>As nostalgicwisdom said, Reed does not advertise itself as much as others schools because it’s really not for everyone and doesn’t really try to play the rankings game that does, of course, contribute to lower acceptance rates (<a href=“College Rankings - Admission - Reed College”>College Rankings - Admission - Reed College; “There is little doubt that Reed’s stand comes with a price tag. Every year, thousands of promising high school seniors (and their parents) may cross Reed off their list if it doesn’t land in the Top 50 or Top 25. Nonetheless, Reed continues to believe that USN’s system is beyond repair and refuses to participate in what is essentially a statistical charade.”) </p>

<p>You are also looking at acceptance rates in a very dubious way that furthers your own argument and not how they are typically considered. While acceptance rates may indicate the “popularity” of a school (only to an extent), they should be considered along with average/median SAT scores (otherwise, it would be reasonable to assert that schools like College of the Ozarks are much better than, say, Hamilton). Reed’s enrolled students SAT scores/ACT median, which varies from year to year in the range of 2060-2100 (and usually 31 ACT), is quite in line with that of schools like Haverford and Vassar. How does Reed still manage to enroll such strong students if it was not as good as those schools? Unless, of course, your argument is that Vassar “lags these schools by a significant margin”, in which case, I rest my case.</p>

<p>PS “The U of C acceptance rate back a few years just reflects the overall increased selectivity of all the top schools these days and further weakens the argument about Reed.” Seriously? You really don’t know anything about the University of Chicago, do you? UChicago is notorious for its indiscriminate advertising (Hey student with 1700 SAT, apply to our university!)</p>

<p>Int 95 are you a student? How can you possibly know anything about Carleton and all these schools. Carleton and Reed are not peers in very many minds. Carleton has the worst location/ climate in the country and absolutely does not advertise like U of C and yet still has an acceptance rate around 20%. I’ve seen this same tired argument about the now out of favor single sex schools of the past. Smith is a perfect example and is a peer school for Reed. It remains a fine school but it has fallen far out of favor for various reasons and has a similar acceptance rate to Reed despite having good SAT/ACT scores. The reason for this is that these schools are getting mainly the students with good testing scores who failed to gain admission to the top schools for whatever reason. Amherst on the other hand is able to attract students away from all but HYPS. This is a huge difference that greatly effects the culture on campus since at Amherst most of the students considered it their top choice or two while at Reed or Smith most of the students are attending the schools as backups. This may not be fair and I have no doubt that students can get a fine education from either Reed or Smith but from the perspective of most elite students they prefer the culture of Amherst. </p>

<p>No, the question is, how can YOU possibly know anything about Reed or Smith or any of these schools to make such ridiculous claims about their inferiority to Amherst or CMC (and by doing so, you have made it clear that you don’t know anything about these schools)? Clearly the only thing you know about is acceptance rates and how prestige is a function of acceptance rate (it’s not–perhaps just to some college applicants). Your argument is essentially that some “elite students”, completely oblivious to the idea of fit, choose to attend Amherst over Smith and the sorts and that means that Amherst > Smith? NO. A big, fat NO. Pitting LACs against each other does no one any good because Amherst is not Harvard and it never will be, despite what your elitist friends, who feel validated by the exclusionary competition at Amherst, say. </p>

<p>Ridiculous, unsupported claim #1: Please, go ahead and prove that “Amherst on the other hand is able to attract students away from all but HYPS” and not through the anecdotal “my friends did this”. </p>

<p>Ridiculous, unsupported claim #2: “most of the students are attending the schools as backups”… How do you know this? And how do you know that <em>most</em> students don’t attend Amherst as a backup? I know quite a few who did, but, of course, the problem with this is that it is anecdotal. I doubt, however, you can come up with any better evidence (not “my friends said so”)</p>

<p>Ridiculous, unsupported claim #3: “most elite students they prefer the culture of Amherst.” Who are these elite students? What culture? Elitist, wealthy football players from the northeast who see their school as the best in the world? Wow, I bet everyone would love to be their friend (<em>facepalm</em>). </p>

<p>Look, dude (or whatever), Amherst is a top LAC. But that takes away nothing from Reed or Smith or any of the other fine schools that are academic equals to Amherst. I am, indeed, a big fan of Amherst as it is the only LAC that gives precedence to its students (including internationals) over new fancy buildings and whatever (Williams, Middlebury, Vassar etc). But that does not mean it is the right school for everyone.</p>

<p>International, any person usually only has first had experience at one school…the one they went to. That doesn’t make their personal experiences from outside sources invalid.</p>

<p>Have to support international…amherst does have kids that turn down hyps all the time. Is this going to turn into a hyp vs. Top lac debate? </p>

<p>My problem isn’t with anecdotes or personal experiences. It’s the generalizations based on them.</p>

<p>Not a LAC vs university debate. It’s hard to say no to HYPSM, but I know it happens more often than one would think. I was surprised the first time (which was while visiting Swarthmore – met 1 student who said no to Yale, one to Harvard), but it does happen. Of course the LAC vs university decision is a very personal one. Comparing LACs to universities is an exercise in futility, but the claim that X LAC is more “prestigious” than, say, a research university like Cornell says more about the culture of the school that the person is part of than it does about the reality.</p>

<p>@SAY</p>

<p>“Carleton and Reed are not peers in very many minds. Carleton has the worst location/ climate in the country …”</p>

<p>It’s statements like this that undermine whatever your point is. Oh wait, there are TWO colleges in Northfield MN. </p>

<p>The rigor at both schools is comparable. Succeeding at Amherst will not be significantly harder than succeeding at Reed and vice versa. Amherst is (slightly) better than Reed at almost everything. That being said, the student bodies are pretty different. You do not sound like a super activist though, so Reed would probably not be the ideal place for you. </p>

<p>A degree from Amherst, Williams, Pomona commands more respect from people who matter than do degrees from schools such as Cornell, Georgetown, Tufts, etc. It is harder to get into a top liberal arts college than it is to get into almost any school excluding the Ivies. On average, students from the top liberal arts schools have higher SATs and GPAs than do students at most research universities. </p>

<p>Liberal arts schools are essentially a well kept secret for the children of smart parents to pursue any field they want. However, “Joe the plumber” types will probably look at you blankly when you tell him where you are going. </p>

<p>From the limited information in your post, it sounds like choosing Amherst is the best decision. However, both schools are great, and you should really just go with your gut feeling. </p>