Andover Prestige Slipping?

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>I heard recently from a parent that Andover is having much lower yield from their acceptees. And so that's why they are so agressively marketing to accepted students, unlike Exeter and St. Paul's.</p>

<p>I want to apply to Andover as well as Exeter and St. Paul's. But has anyone heard that Andover's reputation is slipping? What's the real scoop.</p>

<p>This parent said Exeter and St. Paul's does little to pressure the acceptees, but Andover puts on the full court press. It's because "they have to try harder".</p>

<p>I'd love to hear from people who really know what's going on. </p>

<p>Thanks for your advice.</p>

2

<p>Andover is the second greatest secondary school in the world. I would say that their "prestige" remains intact. :) Having said that they seem to be trying harder than St. Paul's and Exeter the last couple of years to impress on revisit days IMHO.</p>

3

<p>Blueliner, </p>

<p>Thank you for your reply.</p>

<p>Why are they trying so hard on the revisit days? Are they concerned about something? Or are they just trying to be very friendly and welcoming?</p>

<p>Looking at objective data, like college acceptance rates, they seem to be just as good if not better than other schools like Exeter and St. Paul's.</p>

<p>So maybe they are trying to emphasize their friendly environment??</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
Andover is the second greatest secondary school in the world.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I guess that makes it the most prestigious secondary school in the US? </p>

<p>Eton College remains the most prestigious secondary school in the world. (after all which "original" secondary school do you think the great US prep schools - Andover, Exeter, Deerfield, Choate, St. Paul's, Hotchkiss, Lawrenceville, et. al. - modeled themselves on?)</p>

5

<p>IMO, I think that Andover and Exeter are about equal. I've heard from some people that Andover's prestige is a bit better than Exeter's, but Exeter's is rapidly catching up. </p>

<p>Addressing bproud's post, I agree to an extent. Yes, Exeter and SPS put very little pressure on the admitted students (they have only sent the admission package and one letter to me), while Andover has sent me more and pressured the admitted students more. However, I do not believe that this is negative- they just want more of their admitted students to join the community-- in other words, they want their best applicants to join them-- who wouldn't?</p>

6

<p>Consider this...from a parent whose S decided NOT to apply to Andover but did apply to Exeter and SPS.</p>

<p>Andover's overall prestige may very well be REFLECTED in the fact that it rolls out the red carpet for students who have been offered admission. All along through the admission process, I thought Andover stood out -- head and shoulders above the rest. They were the best about communicating; the most accommodating; the best organized...and so on. Frankly, I thought their admission office set the gold standard.</p>

<p>Now is that all part of a panicked fire drill because Andover's prestige is slipping? Or is this 5 STAR approach to everything they do -- including Revisit Days -- part of a culture that settles for nothing less than the best?</p>

<p>Frankly, if you thought that your product was the best of the best, wouldn't you market it that way? And wouldn't your customers be getting a better idea of what your product is about because your marketing reflected your pride in your product?</p>

<p>More curious to me is why a school with a 5 STAR reputation would do anything less than put on the full court press to court the students that it wants. As a prospective parent visiting a school that was cavalier and minimalist in its efforts to lure accepted students, shouldn't I be assuming a level of arrogance toward the accepted applicants? If I had had a chance to compare both the Andover and Exeter revisits -- assuming that Andover's was, by comparison, a David Wolper Olympic Opening Ceremony gala next to Exeter's county fair hawker -- shouldn't I be concerned that the "we're so awesome we don't need to do more for you" attitude might apply beyond the admission office and into the halls of academia?</p>

<p>If it's true that Andover's efforts to attract students make SPS' and Exeter's efforts pale by comparison, I would suggest that your confidence level in Andover's prestige should be rising, not flagging.</p>

7

<p>This is so interesting to me, having attended revisit days at both andover and exeter a few years ago. I felt that they were both low pressure- wanted to convey what they could offer, but no pressure to accept the offer even when my son and I specifically spoke with the heads of admission.</p>

8

<p>With four acceptances, D only wanted to attend one revisit day and that was to Exeter. Exeter made it very clear that they did not care to put on a "dog and pony show" to lure accepted students. We appreciated the approach. The revisit day was organized and thorough. D shadowed her host throughout a full day so was able to get the full experience (to the extent possible) about what it was like to be an Exonian. Parents attended insightful separate panel discussions with faculty and students and classes. We felt it was the best way to truly evaluate the "fit" so often discussed here.</p>

<p>We received all the nice letters, postcards, and phone calls from the schools but, when it came to decision time, those things played no role in D's final decision.</p>

9

<p>Getting back to the original question...</p>

<p>The OP heard scuttlebutt that the yield rate was slipping and was trying to correlate that to the aggressive marketing that was their observation.</p>

<p>drnancie didn't seem to get the same feel when comparing it to Exeter, which is a valid observation.</p>

<p>My thought is that with the growth of prestige and popular notariety of other top schools (SPS, Exeter, Choate, Hotchkiss et al), it does become more difficult to keep your yield rates steady. Ten years ago, a kid who was accepted at 3 or 4 of the top schools probably was more likely to choose Andover because of Andover's established lead in cache than s/he would be today. If before 1/2 of these multiply accepted kids would select Andover and today only 40% of them would, it does create a yield difference. It is no slap at Andover, as it is no less of a school than it ever was. I believe the other schools have done a superior job of building their name recognition (in addition to their offerings), which allows the brand concious more acceptable options.</p>

<p>Now I don't have the actual numbers in front of me, but this would be a very plausable explanation for slippage in the yield rate, if it has, in fact, happened.</p>

<p>And I would hardly say the Andover's prestige is slipping, much like Harvard and Yale's prestige isn't slipping with the emergence of Princeton in the last decade or two.</p>

10

<p>I do know that andover had more applications this year than any of the other prep schools. and I completely agree with goaliedad.</p>

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<p>stop caring about prestige and worry about the education.</p>

12

<p>I went to boarding school in the 70's, the reputation of Exeter and Andover at that time was that they were the two top schools. Competition to get into them was not as stiff as it is today, probably because you did not have as many kids applying. Exeter was viewed as the more "studious" and academically challenging, Andover was more "prestigious" and had the "names" (like the Kennedys). I think it is funny that the debate still goes on in 2007!
They are both incredible schools, and it is like comparing the best apple to the best orange..... if you like fruit, you can't go wrong, whichever one you pick!</p>

13

<p>GreenDayFan and twosonmom make good points. Both are great schools if they are right for you. Don't let prestige or "full court press" marketing influence your decision. Leave the issue of yields to the school administrators to fret about.</p>

14

<p>Andover vs Exeter</p>

<p>Full Disclosure-My daughter applied to only Andover and Exeter, was accepted by both with virtually identical financial aid packages, and has decided to attend Andover. Back in my day (mid 60's), I think Exeter had a slight edge in (social) prestige, but that now seems to have been reversed with Andover enjoying a very small (academic) edge. Whatever the edge is, it's very small. Clearly, both schools provide simply outstanding environments in which to learn and to grow, and to expand one's horizons. The student bodies seem very similar in terms of ability and diversity. The quality of facilities and faculty is a push. But these schools have quite different feels. After a lot of agonizing, my daughter chose Andover, because it seemed a slightly better fit for her personally-but it was a very difficult and stressful call. For others Exeter would be a better fit.</p>

<p>On the subject of why does Andover try harder, and does it try <em>too</em> hard, these are my personal thoughts. In the months leading up to March 10th, I found myself surprised to be leaning towards Exeter, despite a strong beginning bias for Andover, because of the periodic (but not overly done) series of emails and other contacts from Exeter that made you feel they really were interested in you. But that dynamic changed abruptly on and after March 10th. Considering that Andover and Exeter have many cross-applicants, and compete fiercely for the same top students, I found the disadvantages that Exeter imposed on itself astonishing. Most significantly, Andover's package arrived early on Saturday, March 10th, while Exeter's arrived on the doorstep of an empty house with an anti-climactic thud the afternoon of Monday March 12th. My daughter did not see it till late afternoon after a long day at school and when her parents were both still at work. Then came dinner and homework. Why give your arch competitor an entire weekend for the family and friends of an admitted student to pore over your rival's beautifully packaged admissions materials, form an emotional bond, and luxuriate in the joy, relief and, yes, gratitude of having been admitted after a long and grueling process? Inexplicable. Simply inexplicable, to anyone who's ever had anything to do with (to put it crassly) sales. Compounding this very significant error, Exeter had no link on its website for admitted students! It was hard to even find the revisits link! Contrast that with Andover's warm and fuzzy "Congratulations to Newly Admitted Students!" link, and a series of mailings and emailings of highly effective DVDs and letters (only palely matched by Exeter) that made you feel they REALLY wanted you. Again, simply astonishing.</p>

<p>On a strictly unemotional analytic level, the post-admissions hoopla should not form the basis for making a choice between the two schools. But in the real world, emotions matter, and sometimes they matter a lot. Note to Exeter: you're communicating with 13 and 14-year olds! Andover's well-timed post-admissions blitz may give Andover an often decisive edge. I think Exeter needs to rethink its process, on which it obviously expends a great deal of time, energy, thought and money, so as not to gratuitously hobble itself in the final laps of the race. That said, I don't <em>think</em> it ultimately affected our choice. But I can't be sure. Just my thoughts.</p>

15

<p>from an international perspective, i dont think andover made that much of an effort until march 10th. like checkwriter, i was leaning towards exeter. They made more of an effort to scout students and even came down to my country in asia to give a reception. And their catalogue looks a lot better than andovers.</p>

<p>Yup, i think both are fantastic schools and i really dont think andover's prestige is slipping</p>

16

<p>"Prestige" is not a good enough reason to attend a school, IMHO!</p>

17

<p>Thank you so much for all the posts. I agree with those who say Prestige is not a reason to select a particular school. And beside, SPS, PEA and PA all seem to be pretty much up at the top in any case.</p>

<p>My question about Prestige was to try to get a sense of why PA put in so much more ("better"?) effort in their communication with accepted students and on revisit days, etc.</p>

<p>I hope to have the opportunity next year to find out for myself. But in the mean time, I've seen the experience of my brother. It's been night and day difference. Andover has had so many people contact him, and they follow up, and on revisit day, he said so many people on the staff came up to him to greet him inidividually. This is such a stark contrast to what happened at SPS and PEA. Not that they were not positive, but just to such a different level.</p>

<p>I was very impressed to see all the personal stuff plied on my brother and I thought, if I get in, I'm def. going to Andover. But a parent who has children in BS's told my parents that it isn't so much "personal attention" as much as "personal marketing". That their yields have been going down, so they are making a big push. And that the "biggest applicant pool ever" is not so much a reflection of kids' natural interest, but the result of "full court" marketing.</p>

<p>So I'm so confused. Again, it's not a prestige thing so much as trying to understand if this is a reflection of the way that the school is, "welcoming and positive and friendly" which I'm hoping is the case, or it is a reflection of their need because they are somehow "slipping".</p>

<p>Again, I hope I'll have the chance to even have the option next year, like my brother, but our whole family has been quite amazed by the difference at after acceptance efforts of the three schools.</p>

18

<p>Actually, I think you are putting too much effort into trying to rationalize Andover's actions. Relax and enjoy the attention.</p>

<p>I think the remarks about it being personal marketing are spot on, though.</p>

<p>A few days of schmoozing should not be allowed to make your decision. The fact that they make so many resources available to you though should prompt you to ask as many questions as possible. They want to show you everything and you should take them at their word and look at everything. Your next 4 years depend upon that evaluation.</p>

19

<p>Goaliedad,</p>

<p>I get what you are saying. But for my brother and me, this is def. one of if not the most important decision that we will make before college. So it's kinda important for me to understand what the school is really like. And if their actions are motivated by one reason versus another, I'd like to know that. I may never find out, but I'd like to know.</p>

<p>Yeah I do stress about this, but that's because it's really an important decision for me.</p>

<p>I have a mom and a step mom. My step mom gets me these incredible gifts all the time. My mom never does. But that doesn't mean that I believe that my mother cares less about me, or looks out less for my well being. So sometimes, it's really important to think about why certain actions are being taken. Not just accept things at face level. I wish I could. But that's not the way I think. Unfortunately for me.</p>

<p>No offense to you at all.</p>

20

<p>A/E,</p>

<p>Sorry, I'm new to this forum. I take it you are deciding between PA and PEA? Have you mad a decision?</p>

<p>If you did, can you share why you made that decision?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>