When any prospective college student / high school senior starts the process of creating their own final list of BFA or BA Acting programs to apply to, I would simply encourage them to also consider the external opportunities available to them in terms of where that college is located… and also the potential long-term impact of that college’s alumni network.
Often times, those who rank/list such acting programs tend to evaluate them in isolation… looking only at the training within the college and at the performance opportunities/coaching at the school. But the real world does not really operate that way… in isolation on campus. Those aspects or school-centric qualities clearly are important no doubt, but do not also discount audition & actual job opportunities within a 20-30 min sphere of influence around the college campus as well.
When my daughter was deciding on where she wanted to attend college, she factored in such things into her decision-making process and realistically looked at the location of the school and its acting opportunities nearby as roughly one-third of what she hoped to accomplish while studying acting in college.
In other words… Can you audition for or work in film, television or theatre off-campus while there too? Is there a strong opportunity to appear in student films there and at neighboring colleges? How instrumental is that college’s alumni network in getting you actual work or opportunities at least to audition during college and beyond?
In her final analysis, it is why she chose to attend college in Los Angeles. Had she not chosen L.A., it likely would have been in NYC or possibly Chicago for exactly the same reasons.
On her second day of college this year (her junior year), she spent a day in classes on campus, auditioned for a student film in the afternoon and spent the evening on the set of a Green Day video in nearby Venice Beach. Such extra-campus opportunities are not always available at all colleges… regardless of the relative strength of the acting instruction there. So you may just want to consider how important the school’s location / environment may be to you individually as well.
@WWWard - those opportunities can be valuable- but realistically, many BFA students have very little time to be involved in projects outside of their program during the school year. Some schools encourage outside auditioning - some do not. TBH- I want my D (also entering her junior year) to be focused on college right now. So even though she is in NYC- she has not been out auditioning as of yet. I am glad, however, that she will have the opportunity to next year as she transitions towards the real world
@toowonderful And that is clearly the more common approach, most likely, for the majority of BFA program participants. I have seen the positive and negative results of each approach as well. There is clearly no one right answer. I have seen people graduate with acting contracts already in-hand – especially at my daughter’s college but elsewhere too – and I have unfortunately seen stellar talents who excelled while in college give up acting altogether after 18 mos of not landing what they hoped to post-graduation.
I agree that there is certainly no time for a full theatrical, stage production, commitment outside of school during the school year for most BFA participants… so I am not talking about such per se. I am speaking more to opportunities with short time commitments… e.g. commercials, new media, short films, videos, small feature film roles, guest spots on tv series and the like.
As with anything else, auditioning is itself an art form that can take time and effort to master… or to gain enough confidence in… and enable hiring opportunities. The transition from on-stage to on-camera auditioning especially can take some time and practice. I would just not want to fully wait until mid-way through my last semester or even later to start that process.
Anyhow… it is obviously a personal choice for all. I believe that even just being in an environment where real world acting opportunities are prevalent is an advantage. Your daughter being exposed to all that NYC has to offer is itself a huge advantage in my opinion. Even just getting the opportunity, as time may allow, to attend external stage productions, live television tapings, film premieres, etc. is an advantage unto itself.
For all these reasons, I personally would give programs in those type of metro areas: NYC, Chicago, L.A., San Francisco, Houston, Austin, etc. a closer look.
@WWWard - given that this is the musical theater board- a lot of us have kids focused on stage productions rather than film, so the commitments tend to be longer- and therefore the outside opportunities smaller. I know the D of one poster had to turn down a job a year or so ago (off off bway) b/c it wouldn’t work with her school schedule.
I absolutely agree that studying in a major market can be beneficial- but each person has to decide what is best for them. I also think that film acting, theater acting, and MT - while sharing some facets- are all slightly different paths- at least at the early stages
Certainly, every prospective student’s list should take location and all it has to offer into consideration. Maybe that’s having the opportunity to attend lots of shows or film festivals. Maybe it’s being easy travel distance to multiple large metro areas for auditions or workshops. Maybe it’s cost-of-living expenses. Maybe it’s having program faculty closely involved in regional theaters. Lots of aspects to think about.
Of course, if there are lots of audition opportunities, maybe your kid gets an excellent job with longer-term time commitments and puts college on the back burner. Maybe forever. Or maybe your kid does an about face, deciding performance is not really his/her thing. So many possibilities to consider. Regardless of “where” they go, getting an understanding of the realities of “making it” in these professions should absolutely be integral to their growth and skill set.
This popped up on my timeline this morning. Another flawed list, more hurt feelings by people who can’t seem to figure out that these lists are not scientific…blah, blah, blah. Yep, still annoyed… Not necessarily by the list themselves as I said before, but by the drama that seems to come from these list.
RE the top 10 colleges represented on bway article: (I said this when this list was posted last year as well…) In the interest of fairness - I think NYU is “always” going to win here b/c they have so many studios (plus the grad program) they are essentially 6 colleges worth of kids. Doesn’t mean it isn’t a great place to train - but they do have more opportunities to make the list - e.g. more graduates
On the other hand - shout out to Point Park which I do not remember seeing on the list last year- good for them!
Here’s the bottom line: these are all good schools. But that doesn’t mean they are the only good schools, or the only possible pathways to success. Sure, it’s a nice validation when your kid’s school is on the list. (Go Point Park!) But that doesn’t mean any of other schools that aren’t on this list aren’t equally worthy training grounds. It’s more about finding the right fit for your child, someplace he or she can thrive, than lists or raw numbers in current Broadway shows (merely a snapshot of a moment in time of a very small portion of the working theater community, given the numerous tours and regional productions happening constantly).
I’m not sure why the type of list cited in post # 45 would cause hurt feelings. It’s similar to the where-they-went-to-school lists that are often posted here. They’re interesting to read but shouldn’t be a large factor in where prospective students want to study. For all we know, half of those individuals listed didn’t even major in theatre or MT.
The bigger question is why these lists always focus on Broadway. Well, I know why they do but it’s silly to pretend that this is more important than it is. Most grads are never going to perform on a Broadway stage. That’s reality. Even grads who have been successful may not be on Broadway. My D has worked continuously since graduation, and I do mean without any break in receiving a salary, and all in theatre-related gigs, with no ‘day job’. This has been for a period of 9 years, and she’s never been on Broadway. I am fairly sure that soozievt’s daughter could say the same. My guess is that not many, maybe none, of those on that linked list could make the same claim.
Focus on the bigger picture, people, and don’t worry about what others are saying. People who are ignorant about how the theatre business works are always going to be around. It’s best to try to develop a thicker skin and after maybe attempting to enlighten them, not let them get to you. Otherwise you’ll have a lot of years of annoyance ahead.
@alwysmom, I’m not sure why the feelings get hurt when people see these list, but it is inevitable every single time. I’m sure they are skewed to Broadway because that as seen as the golden ticket of this industry. I think most of us here know that the industry is much larger and we have a respect for the craft that far exceeds Broadway.
@toowonderful you nailed exactly what I was getting at when I said they aren’t scientific. They are skewed to large, multi discipline programs.
It’s an important point to mention the idea of a snapshot in time - there are many schools with performers listed which have recently closed or are about to close (Curious incident, Les Mis, American in Paris) etc…
@alwaysamom, great post! These lists are fun, but it’s really more significant to know what percentage of graduates are regularly getting work in theater, film, or TV than simply how many alums are on Broadway at this particular moment.
And I, too, always wonder about the majors: if a school has lots of alumni on Broadway, but they’re ALL dance majors in the ensemble of dance-heavy shows, that’s not really relevant to someone who wants a BFA in Acting, for example.
For the NYU list, I do recognize a bunch of people who went to Steinhardt, not just Tisch. So two undergraduate MT programs are represented at the very least. Plus Steinhardt has a grad program in MT and there’s dance at Tisch, etc.
I do think this may be a fair representation of the percentage of people from various schools that are on Broadway–I’m pretty sure it will be similar numbers percentage-wise 6 months back or 6 months in the future.
So feelings shouldn’t be hurt over that. They are just numbers. However, the issue is that these numbers shouldn’t speak for the quality of any individual program and should not claim to represent the best schools for MT. It represents the schools with the highest number on Broadway, and a lot of other factors go into it.
What I love about this discussion of the latest list is not the number of comments above that agree that the schools on the list are impressive for their number of alum on Bway (and the schools are impressive), but the number of comments about how there are many paths to the life of an actor. If we parsed out all the MFA programs (they’re not really the topic of this discussion board) and the number of people who didn’t major in theater (AND someone like Tavi Gevinson who was pretty famous and starring in a Broadway play before even applying to college–and she only started college last fall–maybe not even as a theater major, so I’m not sure that her school should be given any credit for her working success), there may be some more statistical weight.
I’m the one who has often posted the ‘where they studied’ lists in this group and my sole purpose of posting that is to really illustrate that people on Broadway come from all kinds of backgrounds (even if they stopped studying acting after high school, or even dropped out) to try to ease the anxiety of anyone who thinks that their kid has no future if he/she doesn’t get into a school on Playbill’s list.
This is so very real and important for those going into this field to realize. Of course, Broadway is a big deal and getting cast in a Broadway show is no small feat and is seen as “making it” to many people. And I see this idea of “hope to make it to Broadway” as a focus that many people applying to college programs think a great deal about. They really need to think much broader of what success can look like in this field, beyond merely Broadway (and even a Broadway gig can be just a short snippet in time in one’s career as it often doesn’t last that long). @Alwaysamom’s D has worked nonstop for nine years, like she says, all in theatre-related gigs, without a so-called survival job. My D is doing pretty well and has been out of her BFA for 7 years and also has made her entire living related to theater and music. And she hasn’t been on Broadway.
Now, to add to that…I think some who are applying to college for MT or are in it now, would be shocked to learn that my kid, who has never been on Broadway, turned down a job on Broadway this fall (her name could have been on that list posted…LOL). I think some here may be shocked because they can’t even imagine turning down Broadway! I don’t want to get into her several valid reasons for turning down the Broadway gig (and her agent also thought she should turn it down) and will say she prefers her opportunities she has lined up for this fall and beyond. Of course she would love to be on Broadway one day, but that is not truly her focus. She seems to be enjoying some success and picks and chooses opportunities and projects that she thinks are best for her career and her own goals and desires. I don’t want to share here what she is doing next. And I don’t want to share here another thing, but will vaguely say that she had an article published in the past week and the reason I refer to this article is that she even mentions in the article that you should not be afraid to say “no” to projects that others think you may be crazy not to take (ie., Broadway job), and be true to your heart and pursue the projects that fulfill your goals the best. Broadway is definitely cool…no argument there…but there are lots of ways to build a career in this field and be successful and not every Broadway role or job is the best opportunity or may not further one’s career as much as some other theater job might. Just sayin’.
PS, as an aside, many on that NYU list, are from my D’s particular class…it seems that many of her peers from her year are doing very well…I knew this before I saw the list, of course…but many are either on Broadway now or were recently, and on tours, major regional theaters, Off Broadway, and in film, TV and more…It was a very strong class that year (Tisch '09).
Hey I’m waiting for the list that bases their college rankings on things like:
% of grads that book something and I mean ANYTHING in a competitive market that pays more than zero.
% of grads that book something and I mean ANYTHING in a competitive market that pays zero but from which comes great contacts, experience and exposure
% of grads that master the fine art of finding affordable actor apartments, battling vermin infestations and still get to rehearsals or auditions on time
% of grads that discover within 1 month that making your own coffee is way cheaper than picking it up at Starbucks
% of grads that work at places like gyms because "free" stuff like "free classes" or "free food" (let's face it they are not free) make that $10/hour job worth $15/hour
% of grads that are putting themselves out there to make things happen artistically even 6+ months post graduation instead of waiting for the MT Fairy.
% of grads that stop waiting for the MT Fairy to cast them an instead, write and star in their own material.
% of grads that figure out how to make money on side businesses for things they are good at besides performing like taking head shots, laying down musical tracks, doing make up, working light boards etc.
% of grads that know that the MT Fairy, like the Tooth Fairy is not a real thing and unless you have a parent that is willing to pretend to be the MT Fairy for an open ended period of time (and lucky those grads who do and no quibbles with that.)
% of grads that got lucky just because they were out there and that dumb sounding thing they just did for some quirky maybe it's movie thing actually became a feature film but it looked like just something to do on a day when you had nothing better to do.
I want to see that ranking. The number one on the list of that school is where you all should be applying.
@halflokum - What valuable lists those would be! My junior year MT S who runs out of meal swipes on the super-duper-max meal plan, seems to think he’ll be able to survive post-graduation on food vendor truck offerings. So, in addition to a listing of “% of grads who figure out making their own coffee is cheaper than Starbucks” (S has at least learned to use his own refillable Kuerig dispenser), I’d like to see a list of “% of grads who learn to produce their own meals AND realize that a steady diet of ramen noodles will kill you”.
