<p>As an addendum (or as addenda depending upon what I end up writing), I did skip over community service. It does seem as though the applicants that make it the farthest have either had a true interest in some sort of service or have lied well enough to make it look as though they had some true interest in service. I am not sure how qualified I am as an applicant, self judging never works out too well, but I started to think: what have I done for service? I never really thought about it, because it was never something I actively pursued, as in seeking out service positions or tasks. Nevertheless, I came up with some things that I genuinely liked doing that qualified as service, things that I could somehow incorporate into an essay or into recommendations. One example from my high school career: I help out with our youth version of my main sport, which I have been varsity for three verging on four years next year. I help coach at tournaments and meets, and I go to the practices quite often to help the youth coach teach new moves and just to work with the youth kids in general. Although that is not going to a third world country and successfully undermining a revolution by terrorists with nuclear weapons, it is something that is genuine and still service; something that can be reflected upon through recommendations or an essay. Now, on the extreme side, our 2220 scoring salut went on many service trips and won a school service award because of them and "volunteered" at home after the trips. Now he had no interest in service, but was able to string together his community service ECs such that it looked as though he was interested in helping the community. Also, his recs and essays reflected on his "service" so it really helped out. Oh, and another thing concerning ECs. What I wanted to say earlier was that ECs alone are not that important. If you have a lot of unrelated activities, it does not help much. However, if you can set up your ECs in such a way that they can be incorporated into your recs and essays, and also show some logical relation amongst at least a few of the activities, then you demonstrate a level of commitment to a particular activity type/subject area rather than randomness.</p>
<p>^ I agree, especially with the last bit about ECs. In my essays I went into much depth about my most important/impressive ECs, how they related to me, service, etc. Your ECs should be a reflection of who you are and what you enjoy.</p>
<p>First off, I have not yet gone through the college admissions process (I'm a junior), but I'm starting to feel the pressure, and as such I have gleaned a great deal of information from personal anecdotes of friends and people on CC. Also, just so you don't think I'm making **** up, I've talked to my mother frequently about college admissions and have seen some of the applications she has read and rejected, and also ones she's accepted and sent onward to committee... yeah she works in admissions at an Ivy, and has thus put out publications regarding college admissions and other things like that. Anyways...</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Your transcript is most definitely the most important thing on your college application. You simply will not be considered for a top school (you didn't cure cancer, did you?) if your grades are not even close (I mean like a 3.0 GPA, not 3.7) to those of the vast majority of accepted applicants.</p></li>
<li><p>Test scores play a role in admissions, though not significantly so. As mentioned previously, once you're within the range of the scores for a college, your SAT scores will not make or break your application. But if you're way below (i.e. 1800 on the SAT and you're applying to HYP), you better have some very good hook (recruited athlete, Native American, cured diseases, Nobel prize, etc) to compensate for that. However, the higher the scores, the better, but once you're above the 50% mark for a school's SAT scores, these scores won't keep you from getting in.</p></li>
<li><p>Essays are a BIG part of your competitiveness for colleges, especially at places like the Ivies. As one might expect, my mom reads dozens and dozens and dozens of essays every year. She basically says that there have been about 20 essays in the past (many) years that she has remembered to this day... and all the students who wrote these very memorable and very well-written essays? They were all accepted. I'm not saying that these kids weren't going to get in until my mom read their amazing essays, just that conveying your personality through your essays is EXTREMELY important. Your essay is really the only way for you to show who you really are as a person, not just the applicant with 9 AP's, a 3.9 GPA, and a 2250 SAT score.</p></li>
<li><p>Do extracurriculars that show what you are passionate about. I remember my mom showed me an application (yes, I know she's really not supposed to do this) of a girl who had 4 or 5 extracurriculars (at best), but they were all extremely time consuming and revolved around 2 things that this girl loved: music and the outdoors</p></li>
</ul>
<p>...I may add to this later but I'm getting bored.</p>
<p>Very interesting addition The Government. I guess transcript is very important; it does show that you are committed to your academics. So I'll admit that I did not really give that part enough credit. Did she say anything about class rank? Or is the transcript much more important than class rank? I figured that the essay and types of ECs (as in relating to something you are passionate about and committed to) played a big part in the application. How about recommendations, community service, and the interview?</p>
<p>transcript generally encompasses class rank, gpa, and rigor of schedule.</p>
<p>Sorry, when I thought of transcript I was solely thinking of GPA for some reason. Well, let me rephrase that then: how are the three different parts of the transcript (class rank, gpa, rigor) weighted? As in, is GPA the most important, taking into consideration rigor. Or does class rank out do GPA, especially with multiple applicants from one school?</p>
<p>I think class rank is much more important than uw GPA, and that weighted GPA does not matter. Every school handles GPA differently. I know it is easier to get a 4.0 in some schools than it is in other (more rigorous) high schools, and I am sure there are schools where the valedictorian does not have a perfect 4.0; this will make him look less qualified than an applicant with a 10/200 class rank and a 4.0 GPA (who might go to a less-competitive high school). </p>
<p>Class rank gives a clear picture to the college on how you fared against others who probably came from the same socio-economic backround since they live in the same area. Class rank usually comes with class size (i.e. 1/300); this gives Harvard a percentage value, not just a number, they can use to compare all students</p>
<p>For example, say every HS was required to make a 1000 point standardized test (with no clear directions on test material/ how to score) and requires their students to take that standardized test. Two applicants: A and B, scored 600 and 800 respectively on the unique standardized test created by their high schools. Say, Applicant A's 600 places him in the top 2% of his class, while applicant B's 800 only places him in the top 20%. </p>
<p>What do you think colleges would weight more, a number which varies depending on how each high school calculates that number, or a ratio (percentage) comparison of a student to the rest of his class? Don't get me wrong, GPA is still important.</p>
<p>just wondering, if someone had very similar stats, and was latino, what would his chances be?</p>
<p>cicero_oratore:</p>
<p>I think I forgot to include class rank in that first point about transcript, which very much go hand in hand. I've asked her numerous times about whether it's better to get an B in an AP class or an A in a regular (or maybe honors) class and her answer is always the same: it's best to get an A in an AP class. In other words, your weighted GPA (which is what class rank is based on in my school, so weighted GPA/class rank can be used interchangeably, really) shows the rigor of your schedule in relation to your peers. Your grades + the classes you took help give adcoms a sense of what your academic strengths are (for me, I've only gotten B's in math and science classes) and show how motivated you are. What I'm basically getting at is that neither has greater importance, but when class rank and grades (transcript) are combined, one can really get a sense of the student's academic interests and abilities; one doesn't come into greater importance than the other by a large margin...... wow that was quite a verbose response haha.</p>
<p>The types of EC's one do, my mom has told me, are also very important. She says it's a very good idea to show a passion for something (i.e. music, the outdoors, African culture, whatever) in one's extracurricular activities and then further show that passion by alluding to it or outright talking about it in the essay. So yes, you were completely correct regarding this.</p>
<p>As for community service... just do it. Most community service is very similar in that you're just, um, serving the community, so it's good to show some time devoted to bettering the community. Volunteering can also be put under this category, though it's good to specialize in an area of volunteering, like if you're trying to go pre-med then you should try to show you're passionate about medicine by volunteering at the local hospital...</p>
<p>I haven't talked to her much about recommendations, though one thing she has told me is that (this is kinda common sense) you shouldn't get teacher recommendations from teachers of the same subject area (so don't ask your chem and your bio teachers for recs - colleges want to see that you can add to the class in more than one subject).</p>
<p>And regarding the interviews, my dad, who as a Harvard grad interviews prospective students, says just to have a sense of humor. Oh, and you don't need to wear a tuxedo or a nice pinstripe suit... but that doesn't mean to wear dirty jeans and a t-shirt with a beer company on it. Basically, be relaxed, be funny, be (somewhat) casual, as it's just another way to show who you are as a person.</p>
<p>Whew, that was a lot... but I'm glad to help :)</p>
<p>I wonder if it is better to put on the app that you are undecided for majors or just list off some of the subject areas that you are most interested in. I already know what I want to go for, but not many of my extracurriculars really pertain to that subject area. Do they even look at that part?</p>
<p>@cicero_oratore -- No way. Grades and SAT play a HUGE role in the admissions process. Even Berkeley chooses 1/2 its freshman class on purely GPA and test scores.</p>
<p>@hopeful2b_yank3e</p>
<p>Probably decent. You'd need a bit higher SAT/ACT score though.</p>
<p>URM such as hispanic is a legitimate hook- but still there are many qualified Hispanics applying. You'd need a bit more.</p>
<p>light up the sky: you cannot compare the admissions process of Berkeley with that of Harvard. Why? Berkeley's is more numbers based than Harvard's is. Most public universities are more numbers based in fact. Harvard, and the majority of top universities in the United States, are more into this new-age holistic admissions process. SATs and GPA get you past the first cusp of the admissions process. Once you are deemed academically fit to be a Harvardian or a Techer or whatever name applies to the school you are applying to, then you go to the next round: extracurriculars and essays. Recommendations play a part throughout the admissions process, as they are a reflection of both your extracurriculars, your classwork, your test scores, and your general personality (interviewer recs are included in this category as well). Then, after they have eliminated the pool to candidates that have solid extracurriculars, academic rigor, and personality, it is all up a vote of which applicants are the best out of that pool. Now for public unis like Berkeley, I'm sure that they first take a bunch of applicants with the really good scores and grades first, then when they have space left they will start to look at some of the more subjective factors.</p>
<p>Very accurate response Cicero. According to your explanation, does this mean someone with a 5% class rank and a 2200 SAT should not stress over his/her scores/gpa? I guess those stats would get him/her through the academic portion of the process because they are within Harvard's range. Do you think they might take a score/gpa blind approach for the rest of the application?</p>
<p>I think that given you're background, your class rank, and your EC's, you are definitely in the running. You seem like a pretty well-rounded kid, but is there something that you'd say sticks out in terms of your EC's? Do you have a real passion for something? Also, I think you should try to get higher on your scores, or even take the SAT, but if you dont get higher i dont think your score will keep you out (or be a deciding acceptance factor).</p>
<p>i am not going to be someone else in my application. Also my support of Pro-Life causes and the republican party are a big part of my EC's and volunteer work. I am starting a Pro-life club at my school and I volunteered at the McCain campaign. If a school is really not going to except for those reasons then I do not want to attend.</p>
<p>Treat that as you would a risky essay. If you end up preaching it's an instant reject. It's a fact most adcoms are really liberal.</p>
<p>waitn184: If you are top 5% and 2200 SAT, you probably are going through to the next round of admissions, but you would probably be on the cusp for a normal applicant with no URM/athlete/development hooks. If your GPA is over 3.9 then you should be fine, and if you have better than average teacher recs then you should be fine as well. There is a 60 point range up and down considered for your SAT scores (I and II). If you are 750 averaged or above for your three SAT I sections and the same average for your three SAT II tests, then SAT tests will affect your admissions little to none. Class rank wise, it all depends upon your school. Ultra competitive schools will usually not rank, so then it goes to GPA. With competitive schools, top 5% will probably be where class rank really doesn't matter that much. If you are in a non competitive school, then you should aim for the top 2% of your class. So if you had 250 people in your school, aim for top 5. Now this is for the more competitive Ivies (HYP). Some colleges are more focused on GPA as opposed to class rank. Rule of thumb, 3.9+ is fine. If you get one B that could bring your GPA down from an end of junior year GPA of 4.0 to 3.94. So really, 3.9 or above shows you have mostly As with maybe a few A-s and B+s or just a couple of Bs. You won't be killed over a B so long as it doesn't kill your class rank.</p>
<p>I'd think GPA (combined with rigor) is more important than rank. There are a lot of schools that do weird things with rank and valedictorian. Most admissions people I've spoken to have said that transcript matters most, and a lot of schools (don't know about Harvard specifically) don't even look at rank much because it's not really an accurate representation on how well you did. For example, today our class ranks came out and all the students ranked from 9-40-ish had averages between 97 and 99 out of 100. You can't honestly say that the kid who was number 10 with a 99.823 was that much better than number 11 with 99.821. That's ridiculous on so many levels.</p>
<p>In my case, I am 1/204 class rank w/ 4.0 GPA, but I have a 2060 SAT (1410). SAT IIs are 2210, so I guess that part is decent. I am just worried that because I am not a URM/athlete/legacy, I will get cut off first round due to my SAT scores. FYI, I am Middle Eastern. Do you think they will eliminate me first round? </p>
<p>On a 2400 scale, I am just under the 25% mark of accepted students. On a 1600 scales, I am a little above the 25% mark.</p>
<p>Again, I am only asking if I will make it past the statistics portion. My recs will be great (at least one of them will say I am one of the best students my teacher has had in 20+ years of teaching)</p>
<p>Class load is also the best I can possibly take at my school.</p>