Another fraternity party death

Parents Forum
401

<p>Hold a party in your house, any of you, invite young people ages 18-22, pretty much and let the alcohol flow. No id check, no taking of car keys if anyone’s soused, no accounting for those who get drunk and decide to walk home, maybe in freezing weather, at night. Don’t worry about anyone disappearing in bedrooms, ignore the sounds of whatever might be happening. Ignore any signs of drugs being used Do it regularly, and you see what the consequences would be if anyone gets into trouble. You probably will be lucky enough to get shut down as soon as some responsible folks hear about what you are doing. Certainly if a kid falls asleep on your couch and doesn’t wake up, another found face down a few blocks away frozen to death, another never making it home at all, or if anyone gets into trouble upon leaving the house, you’d have LE at your door and you’d make the front pages of your local news paper. </p>

<p>All of the above things have happened in the last few years at frat parties and many of those same frats continue to churn out the same parties week in and out without any problem at all. LE, the university, parents, neighbors turn a blind eye to all of this Why is this?</p>

<p>I’ve written about this before. Hannah Graham was a 18 or 19 year old who drank herself silly among friends at least one frat parties, other student get togethers. She was clearly underage for drinking, her friends, peers all knew she was intoxicated, they admit “everyone” was loaded, with drink and who knows what else, and she walked out into the night, got lost, called on her cell phone but everyone was too busy partying and never returned. Her body was found about a month or so later. I know a young woman and a young man who did not wake up from Greek parties. Both had drugs, alcohol in their system. Only child of a CMU prof died walking home from a college party,may or may not have been Greek, a freshman. Another one visiting a friend, went to a frat party, didn’t make it home, again froze to death, drunk to the whazoo. </p>

<p>These are not kids. They are adults. Everyone knows what is going on at those parties. THey should be as accountable as any one else when things go wrong.</p>

402

<p>"Want people to think you (fraternity system) are actually concerned about this? Then maybe the national chapter of Phi Kappa Psi should mandate that <em>all</em> of its chapters stand down any parties until after the new year, and not allow parties to resume until each chapter has re-examined with some level of national chapter supervision, its policies and the protections it has in place for its guests. UVa’s chapter got caught … but is there something about the culture of the overall frat that somehow encouraged this behavior? "</p>

<p>What you don’t get is that the “culture of the overall frat” DIFFERS school to school. There IS no uniform culture.
The Phi Psis at UVA may be the scum of the earth - and at a different school, they may be choirboys who help little old ladies across the street when they aren’t putting their cloaks over mud puddles for their dates. There’s nothing uniform at all.</p>

403

<p>According to these RAINN statistics, colleges have a lot more work to do than shutting down fraternity houses if they want to make a dent in the incidence of campus rape, since over 90% of rapes do not happen in a fraternity house:</p>

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<p><a href=“https://www.rainn.org/public-policy/campus-safety”>https://www.rainn.org/public-policy/campus-safety&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

404

<p>^^but do the math; what % of a % is that 10.3%? In other words, how % of undergrads live in Frats as compared to dorms? </p>

405

<p>Fraternities are so much fun and absolutely can benefit members and many have activities that benefit the college and town communities too. I don’t deny that a minute. But I still do not think a college should support them. They are exclusive which hurt many who do not get in. Create a camradery, that again causes exclusions for all the protests that it does not, and many have parties serving drinks those under age. It’s a systematic thing. Yes, there are houses of students who are not frat members who do the same, but this is a group, they operate as national organizations carrying the banner and the heritages of them. Hate to say this but many of the traditions and stories fit that song that the UVA group has. They talk about when this guy or the other got blown away, and who did whatever. Yes, happens on an individual basis too, but in a gang setting, it escalates,as things like that tend to do in gangs. Why would a university, why would upstanding citizens, now grown and responsible want to associate with these going ons? Not worth it.</p>

406

<p>@Pizzagirl‌ - yes, the Duke lacrosse team scandal, and the Penn state football child molestation scandal, and the Ray Rice scandal, and the Adrian Petersen scandal … all reflected badly on athletic teams and called into question (again, and again, and again) the culture created by elevating athletes to superhero status. Penn State’s football team, <em>none of whom were in college when the acts were perpetrated</em> was punished by being banned from bowl consideration for four years … which is a huge blow to scholarship athletes hoping to have a shot at the pros. Yes, same goes for fraternities, on a social level. And sorry, but yes, like it or not, the actions of one sorority chapter <em>do</em> reflect on the reputation of the sorority as a whole. Yes, I’m biased against frats. I’m biased against <em>any</em> groups who think they’re special/different/operate with a different set of rules than anyone else in society. I’d venture to guess that the large majority of frat functions involve illegal activity, because they involve underage drinking. No respect for that whatsoever. If they’re adults then they should be facing the same consequences any “non college student” adult would face for breaking the law and doing it routinely. And the rape issue would largely go away if the drinking issue did, guaranteed. </p>

407

<p>Ailinsh1: You really do not know much about fraternities if you think that all these young men do is drink.</p>

<p>My older son is a former fraternity president. He graduated No. 1 in his class with a 4.17 GPA and was president of six different organizations on campus. He did a tremendous amount of community service in college from canned food drives to recruiting trips for his school. (He is now at one of the top law schools in the country on a full scholarship). </p>

<p>My younger son is currently a pledge with his fraternity. He has spent the past several weeks volunteering at the local food bank, working at the city’s biotanical gardens’s light show and organizing the Wounded Warriors walk. He is also representing his school as a student-athlete – again, he is on a full tuition ride.</p>

<p>The bad side of fraternities will always be reported. But there are a lot of kids involved in Greek life who make a positive contribution to their colleges and communities. Unfortunately, you rarely hear about that.</p>

408

<p>“What you don’t get is that the “culture of the overall frat” DIFFERS school to school. There IS no uniform culture.
The Phi Psis at UVA may be the scum of the earth - and at a different school, they may be choirboys who help little old ladies across the street when they aren’t putting their cloaks over mud puddles for their dates. There’s nothing uniform at all.”</p>

<p>I don’t doubt that there are differences. I also know there are underlying principles, practices, etc ., that <em>are</em> uniform and are communicated via the national chapter. And fair or not, the actions of the UVa Phi Psis do reflect on the fraternity as a whole, nation-wide. So, if Phi Psi wants to limit the damage to their national reputation, they’ll not only come down hard on UVa’s chapter, they’ll do some stern communicating with the rest of their chapters as well … and doing something tangible will make a much bigger impression than sending a sternly worded email. </p>

<p>At my work, we have several different departments; several different groups within each department; etc… Security is an issue. At times when there have been several security lapses in a row, the entire complex gets put on a security stand down, which means <em>every group</em> in <em>every</em> department has to spend time reviewing their security procedures, and yes, perhaps dealing with new ones developed and mandated because of the mistakes made elsewhere. Why? Because the lapses of one part of the organization reflect on the organization as a whole. That’s life.</p>

409

<p>@momreads - you’re right, I don’t know much, and I am biased. Your sons sound like great guys. All the more reason for the great guys in the fraternity system to figure out a way to collectively speak out/stand up against this nonsense that tarnishes the whole thing. This is not a new problem. It is long overdue for the good guys within the system to solve it.</p>

410

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<p>You can’t do the math without more information. Are there rapes by grad students and non-students at the houses? Even if we knew this answer^, it doesn’t tell us whether the rapes would take place elsewhere if the houses didn’t exist. And what does “campus” mean? Does it count off-campus university-owned fraternity houses but not apartments where students live?</p>

<p>What is outrageous about those statistics is how much time does not seem to be spent on where the other 90% of rapes are happening. In the dorms, where there are RA’s present on the halls? Those are places with direct university oversight, yet no one is clamoring to have non-fraternity university housing shut down.</p>

411

<p>"Hold a party in your house, any of you, invite young people ages 18-22, pretty much and let the alcohol flow. No id check, no taking of car keys if anyone’s soused, no accounting for those who get drunk and decide to walk home, maybe in freezing weather, at night. Don’t worry about anyone disappearing in bedrooms, ignore the sounds of whatever might be happening. Ignore any signs of drugs being used Do it regularly, and you see what the consequences would be if anyone gets into trouble. "</p>

<p>Oh, come ON now! This describes off-campus parties! You guys are on drugs if you don’t think that a bunch of guys living on campus in private housing don’t do the exact same thing! How are they any less dangerous? There’s nothing magical about not having the Greek letters on the door that make that bunch of drunk 18 - 22 yo’s any safer.</p>

412

<p>@pizzagirl – Totally agree. But the difference is that a bunch of off campus guys are not sponsored by the university. And yes, they should face the same consequences.</p>

413

<p>@Pizzagirl, the difference is in the culture of the fraternities, exemplified in that UVa song and in other materials we’ve discussed on this site. The difference is in a repeating trend rather than scattered incidences. Where in private housing do the residents, year after year, transmit such offensive thoughts to the next tenants in an organized tradition? Where in private housing is raping a woman considered part of an initiation rite to show that you belong in that housing? There is a world of difference. </p>

<p>And I’m sure that the offending frat at UVa whose name I forget at the moment ALSO raises money for charity, provides life long friendships, leadership opportunities and career connections to their members and has parents who say their sons are great guys and would never condone such behavior and every penny they spent on their frat dues was well spent. Or why do you suppose it is that we haven’t heard any outrage from the parents of these young men?</p>

414

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<p>But they don’t. When the nefarious activity happens in the dorms or non-fraternity housing, the individuals are held responsible, not everyone living in the building.</p>

415

<p>“And fair or not, the actions of the UVa Phi Psis do reflect on the fraternity as a whole, nation-wide. So, if Phi Psi wants to limit the damage to their national reputation, they’ll not only come down hard on UVa’s chapter, they’ll do some stern communicating with the rest of their chapters as well … and doing something tangible will make a much bigger impression than sending a sternly worded email.”</p>

<p>I have no particular ties to Phi Psi one way or the other, but at my alma mater (and where my son currently attends) -
I have several friends (including former sorority sisters) and a client who all have sons at the Phi Psi house at my son’s school. Phi Psi was always a “good” house when I was there and it seems to be a “good” house now. I also used to work for a CEO of a major company who was a Phi Psi there (though before my time). I certainly don’t think any differently of the Phi Psi organization at this university, just because the Phi Psis at UVa are apparently scum of the earth. It’s an entirely different bunch of guys. It’s like saying that because the athletes at Party-On-State-U can’t string two coherent sentences together, that the athletes at Harvard must be equally as illiterate.</p>

<p>You have these prejudices because you DON"T KNOW. Those of us who have been in these systems are TELLING you. There is no consistent “national theme / culture.” The Phi Psis at UVa may be scumbags and the Phi Psis at another place may be choirboys. The Chi O’s at one college could be studious grinders who spend Saturday night in the library and party-hearty rich girls at another. At a national level, all of these places stand for and espouse “good things” - brotherhood / sisterhood, philanthropy, scholarship, etc. At certain schools in certain classes, some of them go by the wayside. But there is no consistency about it. There may be some <em>general</em> tendencies (Dekes always seem to be heavy partiers!) but you just can’t conclude. </p>

416

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<p>And THAT should be the greatest impetus for the good members and the good fraternities to be the biggest supporters of eliminating all the bad ones until the reports become more objective, and that only the good transpires. </p>

417

<p>"Where in private housing is raping a woman considered part of an initiation rite to show that you belong in that housing? "</p>

<p>Oh, stop it already. It’s not as though Phi Psi has an initiation rite that involves raping a woman and those unlucky UVa boys just happened to get caught. You know darn well their national organization is horrified by it and doesn’t even remotely condone it in the least. These are a few bad, very bad, horrible individuals. </p>

418

<p>According to that article two other women were gang raped by them and it did appear to be an initiation. Or why do you think they evidently felt it important that the last boy do what he did? You like to put words in my mouth. I didn’t say anything the issue of the national organization. I was addressing your contention that rape in a fraternity is not any different than rape by some unconnected guy living in a dorm or off campus. The case described in Rolling Stone appears to have been planned by a group weeks in advance. I am also skeptical that so many people were involved yet no one else in the frat knew this was going on.</p>

419

<p>Let me rephrase what I said in #416. It’s not as though Phi Psi NATIONAL has an initiation rite of this sort.
Believe me, the Phi Psi house at UVA could burn to the ground and I’d be fine with that; it’s absolutely horrendous.</p>

420

<p>I’ve been wondering if national fraternities ever drop local chapters. I know that local chapters sometimes deaffiliate if they don’t want to abide by the national fraternities’ rules, but does it happen that even though the local chapter wants to remain a part, the national fraternity says something like, “Three gang rapes are three too many, you are no longer our brothers, good-bye”?</p>