<p>(I’m now posting on mobile please excuse any mistakes)</p>
<p>We don’t know if Jackie’s accusations are true. But I think we can accept this part of the article as true:</p>
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<p>It doesn’t sound like either the university or the IFC cares that this is the scene every weekend at the big frats. It’s not one fraternity here. It’s the entire school.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that UVa is not thrilled that parents of prospective students can read this part:</p>
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<p>The most appalling thing about this entire story is how the upperclasswomen are so matter-of-fact about the whole thing. Ho hum, freshman get raped here every weekend, nothing new about that…</p>
<p>UVa’s First Pick to Lead Rape Inquiry Is Alumnus of Fraternity in Question</p>
<p><a href=“The Ticker: UVa’s First Pick to Lead Rape Inquiry Is Alumnus of Fraternity in Question”>http://chronicle.com/blogs/ticker/uvas-first-pick-to-lead-rape-investigation-is-alumnus-of-fraternity-in-question/90069</a></p>
<p>I’ll say that my school has some pretty dumb rumors about certain fraternities that absolutely are not true. Probably not 100% the case at UVA. But often times rumors are spread by people who have never been to a fraternity party. </p>
<p>This was posted in the UVa rape case thread…</p>
<p><a href=“Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone – Rolling Stone”>Rape at UVA: Readers Say Jackie Wasn’t Alone – Rolling Stone;
<p>CF, you posted:
"But if there is a national fraternity, it has chapters at schools with lax policies. If these alcohol policies are so good-- and I agree that they are-- then why do national fraternities have chapters that don’t follow them? "</p>
<p>Ah, I see your confusion.<br>
The schools are the ones who set party-registration and similar policies for all the houses at that school - not the national orgs. The schools are the “enforcers” (or not). </p>
<p>If Gopher were at a school which didn’t have such a policy, yes, his fraternity could self-monitor and resolve not to serve alcohol, to only have parties with guest lists, to ensure x% of brothers stayed sober, etc, but there would be no one to register the guest lists, etc. WITH. </p>
<p>Does that make sense?</p>
<p>Oy, I just cannot read that RS article. Absolutely awful. “Coke bottle rapists.” These people are sub-human.</p>
<p>If the reasonable fraternities don’t want to be associated with the rapey fraternities, they can insist their national organizations have codes of conduct for their chapters that exclude things like preferentially letting “hot” naive drunk freshman girls into their parties. There is no good reason to allow naive drunk girls and exclude non-naive sober girls; it sounds like a way to get incapacitated girls for sexual abuse, because it is.</p>
<p>Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas. Often on these boards I’ve heard about the wonderful brotherhoods and sisterhoods of frats and sororities. If people voluntarily associate themselves with alcohol-soused vandals and rapists, they cannot expect outsiders to make fine distinctions between the good guys and the bad guys in their group.</p>
<p>@Pizzagirl"I just cannot read that RS article. Absolutely awful."</p>
<p>I did the same thing. I started and stopped. Too disturbing. I could not do it.</p>
<p>Here’s the thing though - a chapter at any one school simply doesn’t have any interaction with their “brethren” at another school. How would they know “bad” chapters are up to? </p>
<p>All national organizations have “good” codes of conduct. The issue is enforcement, which is at the school level. </p>
<p>"If the reasonable fraternities don’t want to be associated with the rapey fraternities, they can insist their national organizations have codes of conduct for their chapters that exclude things like preferentially letting “hot” naive drunk freshman girls into their parties. "</p>
<p>This is certainly good in theory. If you are the national organization of Whatever Alpha Whatever, how do you enforce this at every Saturday night party at 150 chapters scattered across North America? How do you determine if a girl is not-hot enough that it’s ok to let her in? (I’m being sarcastic of course, because rape isn’t about sex, it’s about power and violence.) Do you station an alum at the door? (You can just see some creepy fifty-something alum thinking, here’s HIS chance at the hot freshmen.) Do you hire an independent monitor? </p>
<p>I’m being totally serious. There is no good answer. I wish I had one, and I wish I had a magic wand while I was at it.
I also wish people didn’t “need” alcohol as much as they do to socialize, but that’s a whole 'nother topic.</p>
<p>How about: universities must include birthday and “Freshman Fall 2014” on their ID, and anyone who enters the party MUST have an ID, which the fraternity MUST check upon entrance. If anyone with a "Freshman Fall 2014"ID is found in the fraternity at any point, the fraternity can’t have “open” parties for the remainder of the semester/Fall, period.
Easily enforced by the university and “honest” fraternities.
Just post someone at entrance and check the ID.
Just send someone at random times after midnight in the fraternities.</p>
<p>You’re not getting to the heart of the problem, though. The problem isn’t “freshman girls wind up at fraternity parties.” The problem is “sub-human scumbags rape women.” Those sub-human scumbags can rape sophomore, junior and senior women just as easily. The core issue to solve is making the parties safe for ALL partygoers.</p>
<p>I think another issue with the whole guest-list thing - and I don’t have a solution here - is that on one hand, Greek life gets tarred as elitist, but yet closed guest-lists just further that - you can['t come play with us unless you already know us.</p>
<p>Yes, but protecting freshmen (not just girls, but also boys) is a first step before we find ways to protect everyone.
I agree the core issue is making parties safe for all party goers but “carding” parties - and closing the “establishments” where freshmen can be found - is a first step with easily enforceable, simple rules that would, at least, keep the most vulnerable students from being assaulted.
No need for guest lists, either: if you’re a freshman, you’re not in, period. If you get in anyway, the fraternity failed in its responsibilities and can’t host open parties anymore. (This being seen as a “demotion” from full-fraternity- status, and with further consequences such as no parties allowed period if non frat members are nevertheless allowed in, or if there’s an incident.)
Oh, and, this would also apply to “if any HS student is found at the fraternity”…</p>
<p>If the legal consequences of their actions were more than just a Dad’s lawyers will take care of it situation, and there was actual mandatory jail time imposed, things might begin to change. Along with that you’d need specifically trained law enforcement, college administrators not willing to sell out for the cost of a hefty donation, etc…</p>
<p>While this article deals more specifically with athletic teams, it gives some insight, disturbing to say the least, into the mindset and motives of the attackers. Some of those same dynamics exist within fraternities.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.interactivetheatre.org/resc/athletes.html”>http://www.interactivetheatre.org/resc/athletes.html</a></p>
<p>The case at UVA - there’s no reason those pigs couldn’t have just as easily selected a sophomore girl. The freshman thing just seems a red herring to me, but maybe I’m mistaken.</p>
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<p>However, aren’t first semester frosh most vulnerable, since they have not been around long enough to hear the stories about how certain fraternities are “rapey” (i.e. harbor sexual predators), unlike upperclass students who know which houses’ parties to avoid?</p>
<p>Note that a similar argument against fall rush for frosh can be made – frosh (both male and female) can benefit from being around a semester to get to know each house and its reputation better before committing to brotherhood or sisterhood (as well as not having them do pledge activities while adjusting to college life). However, fraternities and sororities tend to oppose such rules prohibiting fall rush for frosh.</p>
<p>I’m guessing that the sophomore women are more aware and at least stick together or avoid those frats altogether. </p>
<p>Pizzagirl: of course they could easily have selected a sophomore, or junior. That’s not the point. The point is that it’s most dangerous (not ONLY dangerous for, but most dangerous) for freshmen (girls: assault; boys: pledging). Taking a simple measure that few people can reasonably object to, as a first step before you do something greater, is often the way to getting to the greater thing. If you start with a sweeping overhaul, it’ll take years, and in the meanwhile assaults will continue. Start with the most vulnerable, in the period where they’re most likely to get assaulted ( to summarize: Fall, freshman year, is a horrible time for experimenting with drinking at a fraternity party.)
For lack of a better explanation: You know, like that story about putting the little flopping fish into the sea “makes no difference, look how many little fish are flopping about” “well, it made a difference to him”.
I think that you have to attack the problem from both sides - the small step and the overall-sweeping step. Helping just a few girls doesn’t mean you can try and help everyone, too.
BTW, The Good Wife had a pretty good episode dealing with campus rape hearings about 2 weeks ago (S06E08).</p>