Another question Music Ed and VP?

I was speaking with someone who told me they started out as a music ed major with a vocal emphasis and after 2 years in the major was able to add vocal performance after auditioning and being accepted. When this person graduated, they had a BM in each. I was told some of the classes overlapped and while it was a lot of work, this person was happy with the outcome. I have also been told by 2 universities that after 2 years there is an evaluation in vocal performance ( I forgot the acronym) and if one passes, then one can continue in the vocal performance BM track and if not, one can pursue a BA in music.

I like the broadness in scope of Music Ed in that she would learn things like conducting. They are just learning this in her choir class in high school and it has helped her keep time to syncopated music when she sings. Having said that, there are classes specific to voice that she would miss following the Music Ed vocal emphasis track. She ultimately wants graduate degrees in vocal performance but an undergraduate Music Ed degree, she could teach in public schools and support herself while she is working on her MA or DMA. So the idea of being able to major in both performance and music ed has appeal. Has anyone else had the experience of knowing someone who double-majored as a music ed/ vocal emphasis and then added vocal performance as a dual major?

I have two examples for you.

One student started as a M Ed student and stayed in it for 4 years. He could audition just like the VP students and did get in some shows. After student teaching he decided he wasn’t ready for teaching. He did graduate in 4 years. So he is now taking a year to work privately with a teacher and audition for an MM in VP. He wants to try performance and expects to teach at some point. He’s talented and I suspect will be accepted some where.

Another started in M Ed and decided he wanted to do VP too. He auditioned soph year and was accepted. However it was then a 5 year program. He did his student teaching and loved it. Now he has an extra year of college and some regrets…and more loans. For some students it may not matter but others may not want to be in college 5 years. All his friends graduated. My D said he struggled with that.

I would check the amount of years for the program. Note if your child does end about performing in shows, time gets tight. If not, taking a lot of classes can work. Her friend was determined to do it in 4 years. It didn’t work. And It is not uncommon in VP for students to pull back on course work if they get substantive roles. This may not be an issue freshman or sophomore year but it can be an issue in later years.

I don’t want to sound unsupportive. I think dual degree and/or 5 year programs are great for the right student. The student who knows they want it. I just saw 2 concerning things when visiting schools:

Over-achiever-itis. I heard my d speak with other high school students about this in a somewhat bragging way. Yeah we’re looking at their 5 year program - right after someone said they were applying to all ivies. In early soph year when her friend was going to do a 5 year program again she seemed impressed by his dedication and questioning herself. But Jr. and sr of college seems to take the edge off over-achiever-itis. I think thirsty Thursdays may have a role in it but not sure.

Fear - my kid needs some degree that leads to a job bc I’m sick of getting asked the annoying question of “what will they do with that degree”? My d got focused on a minor late freshman and early soph year. I got pretty sucked in too - even considering an extra semester as we tried to map it out. Well performing demands and her slow lose of interest put an end to it thankfully. Bottom line a bachelors would have been enough to get her foot in the door. An extra semester would not have been a good idea for her. But I was worried and looking for something to grab on to - hard to admit but it’s true. Now I realize she’s fine with a bachelors.

I’m not trying to read your mind or insinuate this is your situation. It’s really all about me haha. But I did have these experiences. I thought someone may find it useful. I think that it’s important to get degrees based on true interest, talent, desires. If dual is right for your kid, go for it. Just check the years and your pocketbook. It’s a long haul with lots of costs.

Boy I wrote a book…

Good BM VP programs include a class in conducting as well, if that is a concern. In all honesty, I would never look to teaching music in public schools as a way to support one’s self while pursuing a graduate degree in performance, for several reasons, chief of which is that those jobs are few and far between and more programs are getting cut every day. Depending upon the undergrad program and how well you do in the placement testing for the MM program, there is not a lot of wiggle room for working full time outside of a TA position.

Undergrad schools which offer the option obviously work out the conflicts which may arise between the two degrees so my concerns are based solely upon the thought of a Music Ed degree being used to fund a MM performance degree- it’s not the option that it used to be.

Thank you both for your insights. I always appreciate both the positive and negative aspects of a path one is looking to take. When we toured some universities here in CA, I remember being impressed with the number of units performance majors have to take. I was a science major and we have nothing on music majors. I am glad to hear that conducting is included in a good VP program. Having been in the medical field I kind of looked at this as a medical student would study general medicine first before specializing. I was thinking it should be the same with music however they start out specializing in an instrument when they major in performance. I am glad that conducting will be taught in the better programs. I also hope some composition as well. It would be nice to be well-versed in different aspects of music. It seems like performance is the way to go for he then. We are not looking at ivies. There are several good programs here in CA both state level and private colleges. The out of state schools we are considering are University of Miami, University of Florida and Westminster Choir College but I think she would like to stay local if she can.

I am actually a vocal performance major at a school that has a strong dual degree program in performance/music ed. I have a lot of friends in that program and, not going to lie, it is extremely tough and a lot of them often end up dropping one or the other by their junior year. VP curriculum is usually very credit heavy and strictly structured itself, and I would agree that the Music Ed curriculum is much broader and gives one more opportunity to explore things like conducting, the psychology of music, other instruments, etc. and I know A LOT of people that did Music Ed undergrad for that full foundation and then went on to performance grad programs.

I feel that someone should only do the dual degree if they are equally passionate about both aspects. Music Ed students still get weekly voice lessons, and are often involved in performances as well. Performance for grad school is a great idea, and she could get the extra edge for that by keeping up with lessons over the summer.

Good luck with whatever you guys choose! It’s a hard process but it’s worth

Mezzo’s M pretty much said what I would say, about the music ed degree and the performance degree. Among other things, I don’t know as a school music teacher how you could do a MM or DMA in performance at the same time you are teaching (if in fact you can get a job), unless maybe as a part time music teacher where you work only X hours a week, but even that might not work out. In the academic world, a lot of master’s programs tend to have their classes at night, because a lot of the people in those programs are working adults (depends on the school, of course), so a lot of people getting master’s in things like computer science or engineering or management, for example, can do those at night. As far as I know with MM or DMA programs, they almost require you to be full time during the day with them, things like lessons and rehearsals and the various classes tend to be during the day from what I know (there could be exceptions to this, won’t doubt there are), so I don’t even know how possible that is.

The other thing with teaching is, unless you are planning to teach in the public schools, you don’t necessarily need a music ed degree to teach, many private schools and at the college level or as a private teacher don’t require it, the M ed degree is primarily required for public school music teachers.