<p>The threads that rank fraternities and sororities have had some pretty awful comments from kids-- disparaging to Jews, women, and minorities. How overt is prejudice at Vandy, in and outside the Greek world? Are these kids just a few pranksters/bad apples?</p>
<p>One of the unique things about forum boards is you really don't know if the posters are whot hey say they are. That being said... I don't know that is is Vandy alone. I think you would find the same types at any school..More like any other segment of society. The vocal minority that have few social graces and even fewer filters between their brains and fingers. My D is at Vandy. I have asked her how race relations are on campus. She wasn't aware of anything but like most others she sticks with her group of friends. I'm sure if you read through any school's threads enough you would find stupid people. Particularly in the greek section (I was greek...not calling all greeks stupid).</p>
<p>The reason why most people may not be aware of these racial relations is because of the very small minority population at Vandy. Students self-segregate and there really aren't that many minorities in the Greek system. There isn't overt racism on campus but you can surely feel the racial tension in open social events and common areas. There were a couple of articles in our newspaper this year about the problem of lack of diversity at Vanderbilt, I'll try to dig them up and post them. That being said, no one is going to make your life miserable just because your minority but that doesn't mean they want to associate with you. There simply isn't that much mixing and while the whole "southern hospitality" is true, that doesn't mean they want to be your friend.</p>
<p>departed, I recognize that you're a Vandy student and certainly know more about the campus culture than I do as a parent. But I am puzzled when you say that there is a very small minority population at Vanderbilt. According to the admissions dept., 24 percent of the class of 2010 are URMs, including 9.8 percent African American students, 7 percent Asian students, and 5.5 percent Hispanic students. The admitted students' profile for the class of 2012 includes 30 percent students of color. Diversity is increasing at Vanderbilt, and I always like to point that out on these boards, because so many people out there who've never set foot on campus are happy to insist that it's a school filled with rich racist snobs.</p>
<p>I think you're certainly correct that students self-segregate - I think that happens on every campus, even those with reputations for fostering diversity. And I agree that southern hospitality does not equal instant friendship. But I like it anyway! :) Where I come from, it's sorely lacking. My d always knows that, when she's home in NY, she can't count on a stranger to hold the door for her even if she's got a heavy package in her hands. (sorry to stray OT there.)</p>
<p>Thanks for raising an interesting subject, mirimom.</p>
<p>My D has mentioned that there is a lot of self-segregation on campus. I have noticed it on our visits there. It's not just the blacks hanging with the blacks...The asians seem to do it, the indian students also... I think it is human nature to gravitate to those that are most like you. Hence the term self-segregation. Go to any racially diverse campus anywhere... The cafeteria or congregation area will almost always be filled with tables full of similar people unless forced otherwise.</p>
<p>Frazzle1, Admitted students and students who attend can have quite different statistics. I believe that many of the URMs accepted at Vandy choose to attend elsewhere. A good friend's daughter who is AA was heavily recruited at Vandy (flown in for special weekend) and refuses to attend there despite great scholarships due to her perception of racial divide.
Also, since when are Asians URMs?</p>
<p>Asians, URMs at Berkeley? NO
Asians, URMs at Vanderbilt? YES
....</p>
<p>This link is to The Journal of Blacks in Higher Education. It is their report on the state of black enrollment at the highest ranked universities for the class that entered in fall, 2007.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The progress at Vanderbilt University over the past decade has been extraordinary. In 1995 only 4 percent of all freshmen at Vanderbilt were black. This year the figure is 10.3 percent. Vanderbilt ranks fourth in this year’s survey, the same position it occupied last year. Two years ago Vanderbilt ranked tenth.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Vanderbilt ranks fourth, ahead of almost all, or all, top privates that laud their progress at enrolling African American students. Whereas many other institutions have stagnated, Vanderbilt has continued to improve its diversity record. I am looking forward to seeing the figures for this year's enrolled class.</p>
<p>This does not, of course, address the issue of self-segregation. In several visits to Vanderbilt over the course of the last year, it did not seem to be an obvious problem among students in engineering, with the possible exception of a large group of Malaysian girls (but their situation is unusual for several reasons). I cannot say anything about A&S or the other schools. I'm happy to be corrected if my impressions are overly optimistic or I'm judging too readily on the basis of a couple of unusual kids, or I don't really see what goes on in the evenings or weekends, etc. I'm just reporting what I noticed. (The reason I noticed, by the way, is because large midwest public universities with which I am intimately familiar have a severe problem with self-segregation and I was pleased to see that the situation looked better at Vanderbilt.)</p>
<p>As for Jewish students, mirimom, I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest the comments you read are not representative. The geographic profile of undergraduate students is increasingly broad, to the great benefit of the university and the students who attend.</p>
<p>calgal: last year's Yield for black students was 47.4%. I don't have the number for overall yield, but I think it was lower than that.</p>
<p>people on the "best sorority" thread mentioned juicycampus, which I'd never heard of, and I just read through several of the posts on the Vanderbilt section. I am feeling sick to my stomach. Call me naive, but I really did not realize how bad some of these kids are -- how profoundly racist, anti-semitic, elitist, etc. If I could, I would insist that my daughter never set foot on that campus again. Unfortunately, she loves it...I wonder if she knows what some of her classmates think of her.</p>
<p>I bet she's a babe.</p>
<p>mirimom,
There's a reason why it's mostly freshmen girls at frat parties. Most don't learn until after their first year. Those basements are called dungeons for a reason.</p>
<p>mirimom, I think you are being naive if you think that the same element doesn't exist on almost every campus...even the most liberal ones. I would think if you are going to let a handfull of posters ruin your image of any institution then you should home-school your daughter through college. It happens everywhere, doesn't make it right but it exists everywhere.</p>
<p>Mirimom, did you look at posts on JuicyCampus from other colleges? They're just as bad as the ones for Vanderbilt, so I'm pretty sure it's like that everywhere.</p>
<p>And when I say "like that," I'm referring to a much more accepting campus than what you would be lead to believe from reading JuicyCampus without a grain of salt. It's pretty obvious that the posts are very much exaggerated and the same type of people posting over and over again. In other words, it's in no way representative of the ~6,500 undergraduates at Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I am feeling sick to my stomach. Call me naive, but I really did not realize how bad some of these kids are -- how profoundly racist, anti-semitic, elitist, etc. If I could, I would insist that my daughter never set foot on that campus again.
[/quote]
</p>
<ol>
<li><p>If these sentiments were widespread, your daughter, an intelligent, active, involved student, would have noticed. Since she loves it at Vanderbilt, the vast majority of students must not be represented by these types.</p></li>
<li><p>I've been a student at four universities and have taught at a couple, and my H has taught at a couple also. There are creeps everywhere. How they get past admissions at selective universities is a good question. Unfortunately, creeps and losers like this spend a good deal of their time embarrassing themselves on online anonymous forums where they exercise their right to make the world an uglier place. </p></li>
<li><p>Take your concerns to the administration at Vanderbilt. I am sure they are concerned, but there is nothing like the parent of a student expressing the sentiments highlighted in your quote above to really get their attention.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>edit: having now perused the titles (only the titles, they were quite enough) of the threads on that site for various colleges, I have to agree with the poster who pointed out that the same kind of losers can be found on every campus.</p>
<p>By the way, somewhere I came across a contest to identify the phoniest posters. Who says the VU posters are really VU students?</p>
<p>For once, I hope that all of the knowledgeable posters on this Vandy site are wrong. I hope that Vandy is the exception, not the rule. After thinking it over for several hours, I think that what was most disturbing about those posts was that the kids writing them seemed to be doing something more thatn getting a trangressive thrill -- they seem to really be affirming their racist views as legitimate, based on "solid" arguments, some sort of reaction against "overzelous" pursuit of equality and civil rights for minorities. For all the talk about our kid's generation being the first one with no real experience of institutionalized racism, and therefore being "post racial," these posts make one question if indeed there has been any progress at all among certain segments of our population. It is very depressing, and I have to believe that there are campuses where these views are either non-existent or far rarer than they might be at Vandy. And --yes -- I am going to write a letter to the new chancellor. Who knows what he'll be able to do with these disgusting little creeps, but he should probably read the stuff.</p>
<p>mirimom,
There is no need for that. I understand your concern as a parent but I am happy that Zeppos is our new chancellor and as I mentioned multiple times on this site, the school is headed in the right direction. Although it will take a long time to radically change the student body, I trust it will happen within the next college generation (4 years). I am happy that the administration is headed towards changing Vandy to an "Ivy-esque" university but many do not share my opinion. The Greek scene will take a huge hit next year with the Commons and many fraternities are on probation right now. Some ridiculous things do happen at some of these frats: one has a giant portrait of General Lee in their house along with confederate flags on their cars and a cannon on their porch pointed towards the north. I have friends who are minorities who are actually afraid to walk in front of their house. Hopefully that crowd will be greatly reduced and create a more diverse and open-minded student body. The school is going through huge changes right now in terms of student makeup, organizations, and just about every other aspect of campus life.
I could not understand how Vanderbilt has been considered the "Harvard of the South" in the past but I do see the potential to live up to that name in the years to come.</p>
<p>This doesn't just concern racial issues either. It's a matter of any "uniqueness" at Vanderbilt that seems to be looked down upon. This year there was a gay hate crime at the school Students</a> attacked in alleged anti-gay hate crime | InsideVandy. Not sure how to link this but it's worth reading.</p>
<p>
[quote]
But some students, including the graduate victim, said though they were surprised by the violence, the intolerance did not surprise them.</p>
<p>“I’m disappointed to say that I wasn’t terribly surprised because I know that there are several students on our campus who do not understand GLBT issues,” said Vanderbilt Student Government President Cara Bilotta. “And because of the views and ideas they were raised with, it just wasn’t a priority to understand them, and they’ve never really been challenged in their views.”
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This year the gay/straight group here had an "equal sexuality acceptance" signing and it was disgusting to see the reactions some kids gave. The entire point of the event was for students to sign towards equal treatment regardless of sexual preference but I actually saw kids refuse to sign and proceed to call them derogatory terms. This doesn't necessarily reflect the entire student body but it is wrong to say that it's just a "few" bad apples at Vanderbilt. I commend the administration in regard to their actions on these matters and they are doing well in weeding out people who share the same myopic views.</p>
<p>I'm just glad this is confined to Vandy and that no other highly selective university has any racial or other "hate crime" type of issues. I should have my daughter transfer out because of 1% of the students. You are fooling yourself if you think this generation is beyond racism. </p>
<p>"For all the talk about our kid's generation being the first one with no real experience of institutionalized racism, and therefore being "post racial," these posts make one question if indeed there has been any progress at all among certain segments of our population."</p>
<p>What kind of utopian place do you live? Of course there has been progress. NEWS FLASH - it will never completely go away. These kids, like just about any other with racial hatred, picked it up from their parents and grand-parents. They will pass some form of it on to their kids, and so on... If you want to condemn institutions for this I don't think you will find any that will meet your standards. The best thing I can say is that at least with the gay/lesbian situation they aren't trying to sweep it under the rug like they would at a lot of places. </p>
<p>The only other thing I will add is that not everyone has to like everyone nor do they have to follow along just to look good. If their opninion differs so be it. In a lot of cases I consider the source and move on. I don't want anyone signing a pledge for something out of peer pressure. As long as they don't harm someone they are entitled to their opinion, no matter how distasteful.</p>
<p>I think the last post is what I'm talking about -- the idea that all opinions are equally valid, and that racism is just one opinion. That is an extremely insidious way to tolerate racism, and that is what I think must be going on at Vandy.</p>
<p>pmrlcomm,
Since obviously racism is prevalent everywhere else, you're saying it's something that shouldn't be made a big deal of and is acceptable? I don't see how your post helps a concerned parent.
You're right in that racism is something that self-perpetuates, but compared to other top schools it is more noticeable at Vandy.</p>
<p>mirimom,
You are spot on.</p>