I think there are great teachers everywhere. I think a dedicated, self-starting kid who looks for the best opportunities can get a first-rate education almost anywhere. I am completely in favor of kids not putting themselves and their families deep into debt to pay for college. I don’t look down on public universities for treating it as part of their mission to educate students who score below 1200 on their SATs.
But.
If a kid’s top choices include Kutztown, and she doesn’t know something I don’t know about some unique program it has, I don’t think she is really making academic quality an important part of her analysis. There are great opportunities for learning everywhere, but I think you would be hard-pressed to find a college with fewer great opportunities than that. And since the PASSHE schools are chronically underfunded, there’s little chance things will improve.
Bloomsburg has its fans. West Chester is different, a lot stronger than the other two, in terms of faculty and the students it attracts. Equating the three of them is a tipoff that the student isn’t taking academics into account much.
My daughter is thriving in the honors program at Susquehanna. I am so happy she chose to go there. I can’t believe how much her writing and speaking skills have improved. And this semester, the school is paying her to blog during her semester in Italy. It’s not a big name school, but she’s getting a good education.
@MYOS1634 If U Maine was affordable, Penn State, Pitt, and Temple would be affordable and obvious choices (unless OP’s daughter prefers a smaller school). She has the stats to get into any of the state-related schools. However, the OP said $20,000 was what they could afford.
@MYOS1634 thanks for that info about U Maine- that school is on S19’s list and I had no idea they had those scholarships (we live in MD not PA but he would still qualify).
If your daughter is open to going to schools outside Pennsylvania, take a look at the websites of the non-flagship Ohio schools such as Toledo, Youngstown, Cleveland. My D17 received a very good aid package from Toledo. Your daughter would be eligible for a $14,500 per year scholarship there. If she does prefer to stay closer to home, I agree that West Chester, where my daughter decided to attend, is probably the strongest of the PASSHE schools. Costs for tuition/fees, room and board can be under $20,000 if you choose the traditional dorms. I understand how difficult it can be for kids in our mostly upper-middle class town whose families can’t afford Penn State/Pitt/Temple and refuse to take out large loans. My daughter preferred Temple but knew that it wasn’t possible without some institutional aid in addition to Pell and PHEAA grants. She had to “settle” for West Chester (after deciding that Toledo would be too cold for her) but now that she is a sophomore she is very happy there.
I really think my son might have had at least a chance to get in Harvard or Yale or whatever. He had a 35 ACT, almost 4.0 (4.35 weighted) and we’re from the Deep South, which is a good “hook.” He really liked the University of Chicago. But we could never afford them and he didn’t apply. He applied to four schools, admitted to all, and went to Alabama for the free tuition. I think they’ve cut back and we probably would choose differently today because of the finances, but he is very happy at Alabama.
Your lucky she is only hearing this from friends. My oldest heard it from adults. Yes, he got into great LACs, like Pitzer, but he chose Alabama due to the affordability. We just finally told the truth. Our family doesn’t drive luxury cars because we can’t afford it, so, we would you expect we can afford luxury colleges?
We are now on child 3 and Kutztown is a top choice. The art programs are strong and our family budget is PASSHE. She has applied to a few privates that may come out to the same cost as PASSHE.
I do have concerns about the 4 yr graduation rates at PASSHE schools, so we are comparing cost of 8 semesters of private school to 9 semesters of PASSHE.
Her friends are correct, many students do get into PASSHE schools and parties are abundant, but come year 2, the non-serious students are gone.
Have you looked at Truman State and University of Minnesota Morris? Both are public liberal arts colleges, and both are relatively affordable for OOS students. The NPCs for both were below $20k (amount due to the school) for us.
Seconding UMN Morris and Truman State: like attending private colleges at public priced (Truman doesn’t even charge OOS tuition). Much stronger than the PASSHE schools.
Actually @MYOS1634 Truman State does charge extra for OOS.
Non-Missouri Residents (undergraduate): $14,277
Although they do offer automatic OOS scholarships. Even w/ that after adding in the extra money for travel (and I was surprised at how high that was for DS attending OOS) and losing the state PHEAA grant, we couldn’t make the numbers work. But for the OP, it could be a good option.
You’re right - I was counting the $8,000 automatic scholarship for OP’s stats, which would make Truman State OOS similar to IS, and very competitive in terms of tuition with PASSHE schools.
I’m sorry you couldn’t make the numbers work for your daughter :s but I seem to recall your writing she liked where she is attending college.
Perhaps the upcoming elections as well as Penn State’s slide in USNWR due to poor social mobility (ie., being unaffordable for admitted lower income and middle class students) will create some change.
@twoinanddone is absolutely correct. I live in an “affluent” suburb of Boston that is love with private schools. Every April when the financial aid offers come there are dozens of kids who are crushed because they cannot attend their dream school and end up at less expensive options (e.g., UMass). And you know what? They survive and thrive. I think you have done the right thing with your daughter making finances part of the conversation from the get go.
That said, I’m sorry your daughter is going through this teasing. No one should have to go through it at all.
I live about 10 minutes from WCU (my kids could walk to campus from their high school). It is a good school, nice town, cute campus, and every year, kids who “went away” end up there for second year through graduation (and of course a number of kids start there even though it’s close to home. It’s a school that’s easy to like.)
Bloomsburg is also pretty popular around here. A neighbor who is likely a 1%er and among the most financially successful people I know is a Bloomsburg grad.
Don’t know much about Kutztown; Millersville is probably the next most popular PASSHE school for students from this suburban Philadelphia district.
Remind your D that she will get a good education no matter which school she chooses. She will find equally bright students who stayed local due to financial constraints, family responsibilities, or just because they wanted to be close to home. There are lots of ways to achieve the goal of getting a degree, and local doesn’t mean lesser.
Our DS 19 goes to a private school where enough kids will be full pay for college. Since the beginning of college talks we’ve been very open with DS about what we can afford (not what his classmates can). I have run the NPC for all of the “popular” choices, crossed that with his grades and gpa, and given him a realistic list. Too many kids get their hearts set on a school only to be disappointed when they don’t earn enough scholarships. Fortunately DS is happy with his choice and is grateful he will graduate debt-free.
I guess its not OK to say —. So, just tell her there are means girls who have to mock others to make themselves feel better and that she should know that high school will be over soon, do not give them the satisfaction of discussing schools with them again, and that she is awesome. Oh, and that she is ten times kinder and smarter than they probably are.
I wouldn’t lay this on teenage girls. There are a lot of parents on CC who talk of lesser schools, directionals, schools ranked outside the top 100 as if they are very inferior. It’s pretty clear who thinks a school with sports has no right to be mentioned in the same breath as an Ivy (a sports conference) or NESCAC (a sports conference) or one with a high acceptance rate as obviously being beneath them.
It will all shake out in April and May when those teens ‘have’ to go to the same state colleges as they are mocking, but it takes a little backbone for the OP’s daughter and others who have recognized the financial restraints to get through the winter months and acceptance season.
So, just tell her there are means girls who have to mock others to make themselves feel better and that she should know that high school will be over soon, do not give them the satisfaction of discussing schools with them again, and that she is awesome. Oh, and that she is ten times kinder and smarter than they probably are.