<p>I'm not very computer-savvy. D is entering W&M in the fall and has never owned a laptop.</p>
<p>Should she buy through W&M program or go independent? Can anyone be specific on specs so she will have something that is appropriate? She doesn't do video games, but would surely want to watch movies on it.</p>
<p>I assume she should go Apple, but beyond that I am lost.</p>
<p>Thanks!!</p>
<p>cindy, </p>
<p>I will answer with a few quick thoughts. </p>
<p>(1) per our son’s discussions with us, regarding his roomates and friends, yes, there are a LOT of Apple (Powerbook) users. So, she would surely find many friends using Apple latops who could assist her. </p>
<p>(2) Personally, i have used “windows” based PCs since the mid 80s. Consequently, both of my kids grew up on windows PCs. Therefore, due to my knowledge and comfort level with windows PCs, and with my kids comfort with Windows based PCs, we purchased a windows PC for our son. The first laptop that we got him (when he graduated from high school) was a Dell. We recently replaced the Dell with an HP. (he will be a senior this coming fall). </p>
<p>As for where to shop for a windows PC? A co-worker of mine, who is a consultant on the side, and does a LOT of purchasing, referred me to the following website. </p>
<p>[Dell</a> Coupons, Best Buy Coupons, Discount Cheap Laptops, Computer Sale](<a href=“http://www.techbargains.com%5DDell”>http://www.techbargains.com)</p>
<p>this is the link specific to LAPTOPS</p>
<p>[Cheap</a> Laptop Deals, Discount Laptops, Laptop Sales](<a href=“http://www.techbargains.com/laptopcomputernotebookreview.cfm]Cheap”>http://www.techbargains.com/laptopcomputernotebookreview.cfm)</p>
<p>This website provides separate searches for the latest and best offers. It searches both “in-store” as well as “internet” shopping. The site is updated daily, with the latest internet coupons and in-store coupons. It posts infomation about weekend sales at certain stores. It also provides “usage” coupons (the first 200 people will get $400.00 off XYZ laptop from ABC Vendor. </p>
<p>On the techbargains.com website, you can specify “laptop” - so that the listings are the latest Laptop bargains. Or, you can select a specific vendor (HP, Dell, IBM, etc.) and find the latest best values specific to that vendor. </p>
<p>My favorite laptops (and desktops) are Dell and HP. Others will surely have their favorties. I work in IT, and have used many many different PCs (both laptops and desktops). Dell and HP both have good components and good support systems. </p>
<p>If you chose Apple, then that is different direction, and you just need to find which model, and which price fits your budget and her needs.</p>
<p>If you choose other than Apple, then i would recommend that you do some initial searching so that you see which models are out there, which features that they come with, and which ones fall within your budget. Then, if you use the techbargains.com website, and if you go to it every day, for a week or two or three, you will see certain bargains tend to cycle through each vendor, and each store. If you are completely lost, and are not comfortable with using the Internet to search, then i would recommend going into a BEST BUY store. However, make up your mind that may not, or will not buy it there. But you can use the sales person as a means to “learn” about the features and models. The prices are Best Buy can be decent at times, so it is ok if you do eventually buy there. I just suggest that you do some research before buying. Don’t let them talk you into a model on your first day. Please, go home, and think about what they told you. Go back another day, talk to a different sales person the next time. I have nothing against Best Buy, i just think you should educate yourself BEFORE you buy (it will help you to avoid buyer’s remorse). </p>
<p>Good luck to you.</p>
<p>Cindy, My S is headed to WM this fall. I will buy him the Dell that is sold by the college. I could probably buy the same Laptop for a little less in the open market but the good thing about buying it from the college is that it will be built to their specification plus they will cover the warranty repairs at the college for all 4 years - at least that is what I understood.</p>
<p>A lot of people who have non-macs are on their 2nd computer before they graduate (including one in this thread).</p>
<p>Apple just increased the specs on their laptops. You get an education discount, so make sure to use that if you order from Apple. Showing them a college acceptance letter should suffice. You can also get a free iPod Touch. One of the 13" MacBook Pros would last her 4 years and more than suffice for internet surfing / writing papers / watching movies. I personally prefer the 15", but many people have laptops with screens that are smaller (12-13).</p>
<p>As someone who has used Macs his whole life, I would definitely suggest them. They are becoming more and more popular on campuses. If there is an Apple store near you, you can go there, and they will help you through the process and explain the pros and cons of different models to you and your D. Everyone I know at WM who has switched to a Mac has loved it.</p>
<p>if you buy a pc, it’s probably cheapest to buy the w&m dell, which IT can help you out with if (more like when) it malfunctions. my friends with the dells like them, but they have all made at least one visit to IT each semester because of problems. the computers sold by the school are pretty standard, so they may not come with all the specifications you desire.</p>
<p>i was a pc user my whole life and i ordered a different dell than what the school offered (i upgraded it some). dell (perhaps luckily after seeing all the problems with dells) delayed my order three times and then cancelled it right before i was supposed to go to school. so, i went an bought to apple and bought a macbook pro, which i love and have had no problems with. apple computers are quite popular on campus, especially with the deals where you buy the computer and get a free printer and iPod. i also find macs very user friendly and fast, and my mac has never crashed on me in the middle of a paper.</p>
<p>So W&M only offers the Dell? I thought they had added Apple. No?</p>
<p>they offer a slight discount for the macs, i believe. however, if something is wrong with it you have to send it off to apple – no tech support. back when i toured a couple years ago i believe they said they were working on getting some help for macs; i don’t know how this is going.</p>
<p>The Tribe Apple Center website – [William</a> & Mary - Tribe Apple Center](<a href=“http://www.wm.edu/sites/tribeapple/]William”>http://www.wm.edu/sites/tribeapple/) – says that they’re in the process of becoming an “Apple Authorized Service Provider.” Still no exact prices for the new Macbook family, though.</p>
<p>Cindy - You will be happy with just about any laptop that you purchase (be it an Apple or a windows based PC). </p>
<p>A PC stands for Personal Computer. It does not deonte a windows based computer. The term “PC” (Personal Computer) originated when computers became small enough and affordable enough that families could purchase one. Prior to that, they were so large and expensive, that they only could be found in a large business, or in a government facility. I have had several personal computers (desktop and laptops) in my home since around 1984. I work in IT, and it had been a business requirement that I have one.</p>
<p>As for which computers can encounter problems, they all can, but most do not. I have had about 10 different computers (laptop and desktop) since 1984. None of them have broken. The reason for a new one, each time, has been for a faster processor, more memory, more hard drive space, etc. As with televisions, people bought color TVs, not because their black and white TV broke, but because they wanted a new feature. They are buying LCD HD Tvs now, not because their tube TV broke, but because they want to watch High Definition programming. So, don’t let someone convince you that the reason people purchase new computers is because their old one broke. (I currently have 4 computers at home, 2 desktops, and 2 laptops. The oldest desktop is a Dell, and i bought it in 2001, and it still works just fine. My newest desktop is an HP. It has 4 processors, each running at over 2.4 GHz. I use it for video/movie editing. )</p>
<p>My son’s roomate owns an Apple Powerbook, and it crashed this year, just before finals. They were able to recover the hard drive, but not the PC itself. He had to purchase a new one. I mention this, not because i think that there is anything wrong with Apple computers, but just to let you know that Apple computers can have a problem, just like a windows based computer can have a problem.</p>
<p>My son has mentioned (because i have asked him) about his friend’s computers. He has many friends who have Apple computers and are very happy with their Apple computers. He also also has many friends who have windows based computers, who are also very happy with their computers. Again, you will be happy with either type. </p>
<p>(My preference is windows, and my preferred vendors are HP and Dell. Both Dell and HP have excellent support systems. But those are my preferences. You will need to decide which you want, for your own reasons). </p>
<p>I, sometimes, get a bit frustrated that some Apple computer users seem to justify their computers by putting down or criticizing “windows” based computers. I don’t quite understand why they can’t simply be happy with their Apple computer, just becase they are. Instead, they have to mention something negative about a windows PC. Bottom line, both computers have keyboards, monitors and mice.Both computers have a processor (nowadays multiple processors) and storage. Both computers can be networked, and connect to the Internet. Beyond that, it is totally personal preference as to which applications, which menu systems, which graphical user interface (GUI) that one prefers. </p>
<p>You only need to visit your local Best Buy, and go into the software section, and you will discover for yourself that 90% of the software that is written and sold, is for “windows” PCs. Best Buy, 15 years ago, used to have a large Apple software section. It is either gone, or down to two shelves now. Apple realized, years ago, that people were not buying their software, at least not in the same quantity as windows based software. So, Apple made a conscious decision to build Apple computers with “windows” installed. Think for yourself of what the most popular programs used in business and schools: Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access, Outlook, etc. Those programs were all written to run on windows based PCs. Apple users don’t seem to have a problem with running “windows” programs on an Apple computer, but heaven forbid that they use a windows PC to run the same windows programs. I mention this, not to be mean, but because both of the people who recommended an Apple computer to you, had to make some derogatory comment about a “PC” (which is what they like to refer to a windows based computer). Why couldn’t they have simply said “I have an Apple computer, and am very happy with it”. Instead, they had to include something negative about windows, as if they have to convince you that there is something wrong with a windows based computer. Sad.</p>
<p>Bottom line, you and your daughter will be happy with either an Apple or a windows based laptop. Both are excellent computers. Do some research first. Go to a Best Buy and talk with a sales person. Go to an Apple store, and talk with a sale person. </p>
<p>Good luck, and best wishes to your and your daughter.</p>
<p>lovetocamp… that was a nice rant.</p>
<p>My house also has its fair share of computers. The oldest desktop from 2002ish, and the oldest laptop is from before that. They both work fine. Of course, they are basically only used for simple programs and surfing the internet.</p>
<p>No one is going to get a laptop with 4 processors.</p>
<p>I stated facts. I did not “put down” PCs, I mean, “personal computers which only run the windows operating system that is made by microsoft.” Many more kids at W&M who use PCs (the commonly accepted term for a windows based computer in day to day conversation) have problems with them, and need to get a 2nd computer before they graduate. They do not get a second computer because they “want new features.” They get a new computer because their current one “does not turn on” or “has no battery life at all”. I suppose “turning on” and “being able to operate not plugged in” could be considered features.</p>
<p>Everyone is happy with their computer as long as it is working. The trick is to get one that will last the longest.</p>
<p>Also, thank you for pointing out that “graphic user interface” can be referred to as a GUI. That was definitely relevant…</p>
<p>Nice attempt to diffuse my analysis, to call it a “rant”. </p>
<p>You still didn’t answer my question as to why Apple users have to make a comparison to or a criticism of windows based computers. Even in the television ads, Apple stoops to the level of finding a guy who looks like Bill Gates, make him look like an idiot, so they can put down microsoft, and windows based PCs. Gee, what a positive way of promoting your own product - by putting down the competition. </p>
<p>Can you provide the data and justification for your claims about “many more kids at W&M who use PCs have problems with them” ? Do you work for the school, and more importantly, do you work in the IT Department, in the Support group, so that you have numbers to base this claim on ? </p>
<p>With my son’s roommate, whose Powerbook would “not turn on” this past Semester, was that a “feature” that Apple neglected to include in their laptops.</p>
<p>If you bother to read my first post, where i answered the woman’s questions with some helpful advice, I indicated to her that her daughter would be happy with either (an Apple laptop, or a windows based laptop). It was you who couldn’t simply just mention your fondness for an Apple, and let that be the extent of your post. No, instead you had to include something negative about a windows based laptop. (Lest you think that I have something against Apple computers, I could have easily included a comment about my son’s roommate’s Powerbook in my original post (if my intent was to denigrate Apple computers). But i did not do that. I recommended Apple laptops to the same degree as windows based ones. </p>
<p>For what it is worth, i am not a fan of Bill Gates. I detest much of what he has done within some of his microsoft applications. My pet peeves about microsoft applications manifest themselves in both Apple and windows based computers, because it is not the operating system that is my complaint, but some of the design features of Word and Excel. Gates, and his ilk, like to assume that he knows better than the user what font should be used, what type of paragraph formatting should or should not be used. I create large M&P documentation for the software that support, and, at times, i have to fight with his auto formatting. Again, this will occur in either an Apple computer, or a windows based computer. My point is simply that i am not a microsoft employee or a fan of microsoft, quite the contrary. However, i do like and enjoy all of the windows based computers that i have owned. (I am not saying that they are better, or worse, than an Apple computer. I am used to them, and i like them, and therefore they are my personal preference). </p>
<p>As for your statement “no one is going to get a laptop with 4 processors”. I am all the more convinced that you do not work in Support, or even in IT. I will offer a quick unbiased solution to your claim. Do a “google” search on “laptop 4 processors”. Surely, there won’t be any hits. Nor will you find any for sale, if your claim (that no one is going to get a laptop with 4 processors" is so obviously true, as you make it sound. </p>
<p>Again, please provide the numbers, and how you have inside information within W&M, for your claims about *“many more kids at W&M” who use PCs … have problems with them. *.</p>
<p>a) I don’t really think that PC Guy – John Hodgman – looks that much like Bill Gates.
b) Your son’s roommate is in the '90s. Apple sells MacBooks now.</p>
<p>I confess that I may have had the incorrect name for the Apple laptop. I saw the laptop, it had the Apple logo on it, it had a white outer shell, it was very thin. He (the roommate) has owned the Apple laptop for one (school) year. So, if I posted the incorrect name (Powerbook, instead of MacBook) that was my mistake. I was impressed with the small size of it. </p>
<p>As for John Hodgmann, I think he looks close enough with the glasses, dark hair, parted on the same side, and clothing. Apple may or may not have intended for Hodgmann to be a look-alike to Gates, but in either case, it is a put down of microsoft, with an attempt to elevate Apple.</p>
<p>If you compare the two images, there is some similarity.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.catsandbeer.com/uploads/2007/06/hodgman_1.jpg[/url]”>http://www.catsandbeer.com/uploads/2007/06/hodgman_1.jpg</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/bill-gates-speech.jpg[/url]”>http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/bill-gates-speech.jpg</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Bill_gates_portrait.jpg[/url]”>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Bill_gates_portrait.jpg</a></p>
<p>“Apple may or may not have intended for Hodgmann to be a look-alike to Gates, but in either case, it is a put down of microsoft, with an attempt to elevate Apple.”</p>
<p>I’m not a business student, but I believe they call that marketing. I don’t think it has much to do with the quality of the laptop, though.</p>
<p>I don’t have numbers. I can only provide anecdotal evidence, which I’m sure you know, since if you just glance to the left, you would find the answers to some of your questions. I thought it might be useful to know the experiences of as many students at W&M as possible. Of the students that I knew, the students with apple laptops were happier with the performance of their computers.</p>
<p>at work, I use a splendid 2.2 ghz HP desktop. It’s so awesome that it takes 30 seconds to reload the background image when I close a window. And 90 seconds to open Outlook or Internet Explorer.</p>
<p>Maybe “no one” is not the correct answer for “students with a 4 processor laptop”, but I would bet all my money (which is, granted, not that much) that the number is miniscule.</p>
<p>The holy wars continue … </p>
<p>[Dilbert.com</a> - The Official Dilbert Website with Scott Adams’ color strips, Dilbert animation, mashups and more!](<a href=“http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-06-24/]Dilbert.com”>http://www.dilbert.com/fast/1995-06-24/)</p>
<p>OSX has a superior architecture to Windows - based on Unix->NeXtStep, etc, OSX has better memory management, and a cleaner, more refined internal architecture than Windows. Maybe Windows 7 will clean it up - but I’m not optimistic. </p>
<p>The message of the Windows commercial re: notebooks is kind of true - you can buy all kinds of (non-Apple) notebook configurations, with a wide variety of screen, battery, form factor, CPU, RAM, peripherals, etc - but they’re not “Microsoft” notebooks. Hardware quality and components are design choices from the hardware manufacturer, and they cover a wide range. For example, Dell has multiple notebook lines, with different target markets - corporate, small business, home users, gamers, and a new “Studio” line, which is more in-line with Apple design aesthetic. </p>
<p>Non-Apple notebooks do not == “Microsoft” - in fact, first thing I do with a new notebook is load Ubuntu and VirtualBox, for when I absolutely, positively have to have Windows.</p>
<p>I’d love to be able to run OSX on a non-Apple platform, but Apple’s cheated to make sure it can’t run on non-Apple platforms (legally, anyway - it can be done, but it’s not technically legal.) Which galls me - everyone rags on mean, mercenary Micro$oft - but Apple is just as, if not more mercenary, albeit in a different way. They’re an over-priced design company that just happens to make computers. They remind me of a fashion designer, like Herme, with models, uh, “geniuses” who are arogant, snooty, and better than you. But if you buy one of their bags, uh, “computers”, you can be a little bit better than everyone else, too …</p>
<p>Anyway, quad-core notebooks are available now from specialty manufacturers (Acer usually leads the way) and Apple will follow suit, along with mainstream manufacturers later this year.</p>
<p>Personally, I think most people I work with find the “best” solution is to use an Apple notebook with virtualization software like Fusion, Parallels or VirtualBox to run those other environments (Windows, Linux, etc.) Apple notebooks do tend to cost a bit more, but there’s truth in the “just works” claims. Notebooks running Windows tend to require more tinkering over time. On the other hand, those notebooks are generally cheaper, (often “far” cheaper) than comparable Apple notebooks. But again, hardware quality is up to the manufacturer. </p>
<p>If you’re more of a hacker, like tinkering, and want the best technology, many people will buy a good mainstream Dell or what have you, use it for a year, sell it on EBay for 70% of what they paid for it, and buy another one, with all the latest, greatest technologies. For example, BluRay will be <em>much</em> cheaper a year from now. I find it hard to argue with this approach.</p>
<p>Anyway, use what you like. There are choices, which is good. Apple is good for Microsoft, and vice-versa. But no sense getting religious about this stuff …</p>
<p>My friends with apple laptops have had problems with about the same frequency as my friends with the school-provided Thinkpads. I’m posting this from a 3-year-old MacBook Pro with horrible battery life.</p>
<p>I have a Thinkpad I bought through the school and it is not the best computer. It is not the same quality as the old Thinkpad I had in high school. Not sure if this is because of Lenovo or this particular model just sucks. The Dells the school is offering now seem a lot better.</p>
<p>The big advantage of buying the school computer is the warranty. For pretty much anything other than theft, you can get it fixed or replaced at IT for free.</p>
<p>And it continues.</p>
<p>And i continue to recommend both (Apple and windows based computers).</p>
<p>I have to ask those Apple fans, if Apple is so OBVIOUSLY superior to windows based PCs, then why haven’t they put windows computers to bed, or out to pasture. If the Apple computers are so superior, wouldn’t the word have gotten out by now, and people would have told their friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers, etc., and over time those people surely would have dumped their windows based PCs. There would have been articles in numerous trade publications that would have stated the obvious (how much better that an Apple computer is than a windows based computers). Trade shows would have Apple computers on 90% of the tables (and you would be lucky to find a windows based computer, off in a corner somewhere, since they are so obviously inferior. Right ? </p>
<p>The articles below make mention of the low market share of Apple computers. The articles put the market share somewhere between 2% to 13%. The Apple article chooses to play down “market share”. Let’s see if investors feel the same way, about the lack of importance of market share.</p>
<p>My main point is that if Apple computers were just so dog gone better than windows PCs, wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect the market share to be, at least, over 50%. I mean superior is superior, right? Remember when VHS put Betamax to bed (well, some of you are too young to remember). Remember when Blu-Ray put HD DVD to bed. And LCD is soon going to put plasma to bed (if for no other reason, the energy consumption of plasma is beyond comprehension). So, again, if Apple is just amazingly better, why are there any windows based PCs around any more ??</p>
<p>Here is a chart that puts Apple’s Market share between 2% and 3.5% between 2004 and 2007. The article is from 2008 (not that long ago).</p>
<p><a href=“http://fortuneapple20.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2008/04/idc-market-share.jpg[/url]”>http://fortuneapple20.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2008/04/idc-market-share.jpg</a></p>
<p>This link shows the price comparision, including features (processor, screen size, memory, hard drive, O/S, etc.)</p>
<p><a href=“http://fortuneapple20.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2008/04/mac-price-compare.jpg[/url]”>http://fortuneapple20.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2008/04/mac-price-compare.jpg</a></p>
<p>this one is kind of comical … (the article is a couple of years old, 2007, but the information, in general, is still relevant. I would challenge some of the strongest fans of Apple to read this article. Most points are still very valid. </p>
<p>[10</a> Things We Hate About Apple - PC World](<a href=“http://www.pcworld.com/article/130994/10_things_we_hate_about_apple.html]10”>http://www.pcworld.com/article/130994/10_things_we_hate_about_apple.html)</p>
<p>And this info, from PC Magazine, shows the same numbers as the mymac article. It states that even with Apple’s recent strong growth, the market share is still at only 7.8% (market share). </p>
<p>“Apple, however, showed tremendous growth: 38.1 percent year over year, Gartner said, or 31.7 percent by IDC’s estimates. Apple sold 1.40 million units, according to Gartner, and 1.32 million according to IDC. In total, that gave Apple an 8.5 percent or a 7.8 percent market share, according to the respective firms”. </p>
<p>If Apple “Computers” were and continue to be so good, why did Apple drop the word “Computer” from it’s company name? It is because they have had much better success in the i-Pod, and i-Phone sales. </p>
<p>My bottomline point. Again. Both computers are fine (Apple and windows based computers). Too bad that most Apple users just can’t say those same words. It must make them cringe to even imagine saying something positve about a windows based PC. (“me thinks thou protest too much”). </p>
<p>I do know people who have Apple computers, who love them. And, as my very first post in this thread stated, I DO recommend either and both types to any person seeking a new PC. Some who may be reading or posting in this thread may think that I am a windows bigot, but, I challenge you to go back to my first post, where I openly suggested both brands.</p>
<p>Peace.</p>
<p>To answer your question about the “dog gone better”-ness of Mac’s: I think that it’s largely because of the price premium. Some people can’t or aren’t willing to pay more for them. </p>
<p>Possibly they changed the name from “Apple Computers” to “Apple, Inc.” because THEY WERE MAKING THINGS OTHER THAN COMPUTERS. Say, hypothetically, my name is Jon and I’m opening an eponymous diner. Would I name it “Jon’s Pancakes?” No, probably not. I would probably name it “Jon’s Diner,” or maybe even “Jon’s.”</p>
<p>Also, there is a companion article to the PC World link you posted. It talks about Apple’s reliability, Mac OS, and other things.</p>
<p>To summarize my opinion:
If you’re into artsy photoshop and music making stuff, an Apple would be better. If you want it more for everyday use or for games, go with a windows based computer.</p>
<p>For more general advise:
You want a 15" or smaller screen if you’re taking it to class, but a larger one if you want it to watch movies or use as your TV but not lug it around everywhere.</p>
![http://www.catsandbeer.com/uploads/2007/06/hodgman_1.jpg[/url]](http://www.catsandbeer.com/uploads/2007/06/hodgman_1.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
![http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/bill-gates-speech.jpg[/url]](http://www.hoax-slayer.com/images/bill-gates-speech.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
![http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Bill_gates_portrait.jpg[/url]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Bill_gates_portrait.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
![http://fortuneapple20.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2008/04/idc-market-share.jpg[/url]](http://fortuneapple20.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/idc-market-share.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
![http://fortuneapple20.files.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2008/04/mac-price-compare.jpg[/url]](http://fortuneapple20.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/mac-price-compare.jpg%5B/url%5D){kind=link}
