<p>I have to agree about the time management. My son is a junior in IB, and he is very busy with music groups, Boy Scouts, etc. If he lets his time management slip, he ends up with some late nights. I think it's a useful lesson to learn before college, though. I have very much admired the IB curriculum, and I agree that one of the benefits is being with kids that are looking for a challenge.
I would also agree that it's a tougher decision when it's a brand new program, and that the key question is whether the very best teachers will be running it.</p>
<p>Not trying to be contrary but....</p>
<p>There are a lot of kids at our school who do IB. As a matter of fact, it is sooooo pushed that I had to have a conference with the head of guidance because my child didn't want to be in the program. Here are my reasons:</p>
<p>IB has certain philosophical underpinnings to which my child objected. </p>
<p>IB would actually slow her down because she couldn't take certain courses until junior and senior years. </p>
<p>AP was more rigorous in several subjects (foreign language and science).</p>
<p>We are also looking at an IB program. Everyone has their own reasons for choosing it (or not). One of the (many) things that gets me excited about the program is the fact that students have to answer more of essay type questiosn instead of multile choice/feel in the blanks.
What I have learned so far : even though thay are supposed to be teaching the same curriculum, every IB school is different. Look at the teachers, look specifically at the school you are interested in.</p>
<p>If intellectual stimulation is what you're looking for on a grand scale, as opposed to concentration in a single area, the IB will be perfect for you (the AP is very good at the latter). The work is more based on critical thinking, extended essay and other analytical writing questions and so forth than on the multiple choice and truncated written answers that I found less interesting and stimulating in the AP.</p>
<p>Most importantly, the IB is an overall educational philosophy, one that includes a class in epistemology (Theory of Knowledge) to tie together everything else that's learned and help substantially with both excellent academic writing (ToK marking has a lot to do with good academic writing, and the course, though not primarily intended to do so, teaches writing very well) and overall critical thinking. Also, CAS (Creativity Action Service, the required extra-curricular portions of the IB) helps to round out students, and the Extended Essay gives them further exposure to extended independent work/research and writing.</p>
<p>I highly recommend the IB. The only downsides are 1) if your D is really very lopsidedly good at one subject area (say sciences/math, or humanities, or whatever) she will be forced to be more broad than she might want; and 2) she might not get as much college credit, because despite many IB courses actually being much harder than their AP equivalents (I did AP tests without studying just to see if I could optimize my credit for college and had good success), the IB is not as thoroughly understood by all colleges and often doesn't get as much credit as it should. If either of the preceding weaknesses is critical to you and your D, don't go the IB route; otherwise, I can't recommend it enough.</p>
<p>Whether the IB program you're thinking of sending your D to is good will depend completely on whether it's well-implemented. In my district, and in many other districts, IB is put into public schools which are failing or which have very poor stats. (Please note that I am NOT saying ALL IB programs are in failing or bad schools; thanks.)</p>
<p>The public school with IB that is available to S, should he want IB, is quite poor, and the IB program in it has not had any (any!) kids earning the IB diploma in some years now. The program is not new in this school -- the school has had IB for 15 years.</p>
<p>I cannot stress enough how important the implementation of the program is. How many teachers have been trained? (IB requires special training for teachers.) How many students will be in the program? Will there be a large enough IB student body to have multiple sections of required IB courses? To have SL and HL courses in most or all subjects? To provide flexibility in scheduling so that your D will be able to take other courses outside of IB that she'd like to take (assuming she is able to take them -- how IB is scheduled differs from school to school, and some kids don't get to take electives, as has been mentioned). </p>
<p>The IB high school near me offers only ONE language for IB students: Spanish. So you'll need to look at the language offerings, to make sure they will align with what your D has taken/will take in 9th and 10th grade.</p>
<p>
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AP classes allow for advanced study in a particular subject. With the IB program, you entire education is advanced.
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</p>
<p>For the types of students who tend to contemplate taking IB (CC-type kids :D ), this is a specious argument, because if these kids take AP, they usually take five or more AP classes in different subjects, giving them advanced study in as many subjects as in IB. </p>
<p>And, depending on the school and available AP offerings, it may be possible to do much more advanced work in AP than in IB, because it can be started sooner, there are more options for taking it (including self-study, online, during the summer, etc.), and more topics are available.</p>
<p>(Whether the AP curriculum is good in a school also depends on how well it is implemented, too; that's not just for IB!)</p>
<p>Whether a college gives credit for IB courses (SL, HL, full diploma only) depends on the college. (This is true for AP, too, of course.) AP courses are specifically designed to align with introductory college courses; IB courses are not, though some teachers will align their IB course because they have a mixed AP/IB class, expect IB students to take AP tests, etc.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>You should maybe send your D to one of the United World colleges. She will do the diploma there and have an amazing cultural adn international experience</p>
<p>"IB has certain philosophical underpinnings to which my child objected."</p>
<p>Perhaps you can expand on this objection a bit. IB does require community service, and it does include a "Theory of Knowledge" course, but I have not observed the promotion of any other philosophy that is different from the contents of typical high school curricula.
Owlice, I'm shocked that there could be an IB program with no students earning the diploma! That's terrible. I think that shows that the advice to the OP to look at the specifics is key. IB can be excellent, but it can be poorly delivered.</p>
<p>I guess that if no one in a program receives the diploma, it might be because of how the program was handle at the given school.:D</p>
<p>
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I guess that if no one in a program receives the diploma, it might be because of how the program was handle at the given school.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Which was exactly my point!</p>
<p>Hunt, </p>
<p>
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Owlice, I'm shocked that there could be an IB program with no students earning the diploma!
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</p>
<p>Yes, I'm shocked, too. Well, actually, I'm not too shocked, because of the way IB gets implemented in some schools, why it's brought into some schools. (Can you say "panacea?" :D ) It's not really surprising that this happens, and I'm certain, positive, that, though I haven't looked for them, there are other schools at which this is the case, too.</p>
<p>Implementation is key for ANY program.</p>
<p>There is quite a battle on these boards regarding AP v IB. The best thread thoough is the one where the class of 2008 post their colleges and whether they did IB or AP and whether their school offered only one or the other or both. The parents get contentious but the kids on this thread were great.<br>
Please do not let anyone tell you IB kids can't play varsity sports. We have many sports stars in IB, we have acting stars, debate stars, science stars, math stars, academic team stars. These kids are engaged in many community service and leadership activities too. They have a full plate but they get a global perspective to go along with it. Last evening I heard strange music coming from my son's laptop. He was writing a media script for a documentary comparing ethnic music from two cultures (one was Gamelan?), for an IB music research paper. How is that for providing a world view? We love IB and if I had a third child, he or she would be an IB kid too. All that being said, let your D decide with your encouragement.</p>
<p>Here is that thread I mentioned above.</p>
<p>This topic comes up time and time again. I have little use for IB programs that just include the final two years. The IB is not a way to earn extra credits for college; it a comprehensive approach to learning and thinking and viewing the world at large. If you just want college credits take AP courses. </p>
<p>My son spent 13 years in going through the various stages of the IB program, k-12. That's the way it should be done. It marked him in a way that studying IB courses in just 11th and 12th grade never could.</p>
<p>I want to expand on my statement. The IB is about educating a whole human being. Take a look at the at statements below from my son's former school. We sent him there because we wanted to educate a child to be able to critically evaluate the world around him and to understand people who are different then him.</p>
<p>Washington</a> International School: Academics » Primary School
Washington</a> International School: Academics » Middle School
Washington</a> International School: Academics » Upper School</p>
<p>This is what the IB Program is about.</p>
<p>
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There is quite a battle on these boards regarding AP v IB.
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</p>
<p>I don't think <em>this</em> thread is a battle! Do you?</p>
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Please do not let anyone tell you IB kids can't play varsity sports.
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</p>
<p>It depends on the school. That works in your school, but that doesn't mean it works in all schools.</p>
<p>Really -- whether AP or IB, parents and students have to look first at the school, and then at the implementation of the program (AP or IB) in that school. </p>
<p>If a kid has an awful IB teacher -- and yes, it does happen -- the recourse that kid has is limited. IB is <em>just</em> starting to implement distance learning, for example, and most subjects are not available in that format. From anywhere. Probably not any IB study guides at the local library, either. (Though one should check! I can think of some local libraries in my metro area that probably do have IB study guides -- not mine, however -- because there are more IB schools in certain areas of my metro region.)</p>
<p>Of course, a kid can have an awful AP teacher -- that certainly happens! -- but there are many more avenues for help with AP, simply because it's a much bigger program. </p>
<p>There are many wonderful IB programs that many CC parents have sent their kids through, but they aren't the ones to which the OP's D will go. The OP and her D need to see what the (new) IB program in the D's school is like. Just because it's IB doesn't mean it's automatically wonderful; it depends on how it's implemented. I would certainly hope that everyone could agree on that basic point!</p>
<p>How many of the kids who take IB Diploma coursework, also take AP exams?
The school I am familar with labels most their courses as AP/IB.</p>
<p>My son and daughter did 4 years of the IB program and DIDN'T take 1 AP class. Both got accepted to more than one very fine schools. Realize that there are less than 700 high schools in the country that offer the IB program. But, most colleges are very much aware of them.</p>
<p>Kelowna, some do; don't know whether one can get reliable numbers about that.</p>
<p>Yes, some schools have AP/IB courses together. In general and philosophically, I think that's a bad idea. I think that's a disservice to each program. The schools that I've heard of who do that have done it because they don't have enough students for either class/program, so combine them so that they can offer both. There are probably teachers/schools that manage such classes well, but I think one would be wise to look at schools that mix these programs in one class very carefully.</p>
<p>Christcorp, Kelowna's question was about IB students taking AP exams, not classes.</p>
<p>My son took the IB Spanish examination and receive a 5. His IB program had two years of total immersion; three years of half day; then classes every day through 12th grade. He took the Spanish placement examination and the language requirement for the film school was waived. As a first semester freshman, he took a fifth semester Spanish course, and then gave up on it.</p>
<p>He started college with 24 credits based on his IB HLs, his IB Diploma, and the one AP exam. He did not, at our urging, use any of these credits to graduate early.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Really -- whether AP or IB, parents and students have to look first at the school, and then at the implementation of the program (AP or IB) in that school.</p>
<p>If a kid has an awful IB teacher -- and yes, it does happen -- the recourse that kid has is limited. IB is <em>just</em> starting to implement distance learning, for example, and most subjects are not available in that format. From anywhere. Probably not any IB study guides at the local library, either. (Though one should check! I can think of some local libraries in my metro area that probably do have IB study guides -- not mine, however -- because there are more IB schools in certain areas of my metro region.)</p>
<p>Of course, a kid can have an awful AP teacher -- that certainly happens! -- but there are many more avenues for help with AP, simply because it's a much bigger program.</p>
<p>There are many wonderful IB programs that many CC parents have sent their kids through, but they aren't the ones to which the OP's D will go. The OP and her D need to see what the (new) IB program in the D's school is like. Just because it's IB doesn't mean it's automatically wonderful; it depends on how it's implemented. I would certainly hope that everyone could agree on that basic point!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is an important point. It's almost like saying private or religious school is better than public without knowing which schools you're talking about.</p>
<p>Two other points:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>My kids courses are IB diploma courses, but they are expected to also take the AP exams for them. My older daughter was an "AP Scholar with distinction", despite never taking a designated AP course.</p></li>
<li><p>Whether or not college credit is given for AP or IB exam grades is dependent on the college. It seems the top schools tend to give placement, and severely limit the credits.</p></li>
</ol>