Any experience with International Baccalaureate program?

Parents Forum
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<p>To clarify, the answer is the same. Neither of my kids took an AP class OR an AP test. Nor were they expected to by me or the IB department or guidance department. Most all of the high schools in our state offer AP classes. Some more than others. ONLY 2 high schools have the IB program. While they can take AP exams, most don't. They don't see the need in it. There are 2 trains of thought among students. 1) They just want to get college credit from taking classes in high school. 2) They want a broader international educational experience, become a more well rounded individual, and an experience that will also better prepare them for college. This is how our state compares the difference between AP classes and the IB program. Could my kids also take AP tests? Yes. Would I encourage them to or expect it? NO!!! The IB program is intense enough to make them worry about studying for more tests to gain a couple of college credits. </p>

<p>Of the 7 colleges my son applied to; 4 gave credits for IB exams and/or the diploma. That's good enough for us. Also, the main advantage, because IB is a PROGRAM and WAY OF LIFE and not individual classes mixed in with traditional classes; our kids will have a much easier time in college. My daughter noticed this the first semester. While her peers were studying and doing 3 hours a night of home work and projects, she was spending half the time and getting just as good of grades. And mind you, she is not the 4.0 genius her brother is. She is the typical hard working student who works to earn every grade she ever had. The IB program did exactly what we hoped it would have done. Made he a better student. Taught her how to study better. Taught her how to better manage time. Taught her to be more worldly in her thought process. Yes, we like the IB program.</p>

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<p>DD just informed me today (one month before graduation) that they would not make it to the end of the syllabus for either IB Latin nor IB Physics :(. Both teachers are 1st year IB teacher's. Unfortunately, there is a chance that she may not score as high on the exam's as she should, but fortunately, her LAC gives no credit for either IB nor AP, so it is a moot point. </p>

<p>IB Diploma - 24+points
IB Experience - PRICELESS</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>That is exactly one of the reasons I would like my kids to look at an IB program. College preparation. Deep in my gut I also believe that taking an IB route would be the most difficult one for them. At that particular school of course :-)
We are also looking seriously at the possibilty of college in Europe, and an IB would be an asset there, no questions.</p>

<p>Having said that, I know of a boy, top student in his middle school. Went into above mentioned IB program. His last year decided to concentrate on AP and forgo his IB diploma. Rationale - he was sure that AP will be "understood" no matter where he went. He ended up at our state flagship, honors college, full ride plus dorm , books and small stipend. He was not the top student in his class, but was well in the top 10%.</p>

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<p>Thank you, audiophile; yes, exactly right. </p>

<p>Christcorp:</p>

<p>
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Of the 7 colleges my son applied to; 4 gave credits for IB exams and/or the diploma.

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</p>

<p>Out of curiosity, how many of those seven colleges give credit for AP?</p>

<p>Kelowna:</p>

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he was sure that AP will be "understood" no matter where he went.

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</p>

<p>He might be right. IIRC, AP is recognized by many European schools.</p>

<p>tsdad:</p>

<p>
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My son took the IB Spanish examination and receive a 5.

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</p>

<p>You mean the AP Spanish test here, yes?</p>

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<p>One way of looking at the IB program at any school is to see if it is listed as in IB World School on the IB website. I believe, in order to get this label and acceptance of the program by the IB organization, all IB teahcers must be trained, and participate in on going teacher ed within the IB.
For a school just starting an IB program, it would be worthwhile to check if the teachers were going to be trained in the IB system before beginning.</p>

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<p>expatme, the program must be purchased from IBO to be an IB school; it's not available through any other avenue. If a school shows up on the IBO's list, it means it's purchased the IB program. That says nothing about the implementation of the program nor the strength of the school offering it. </p>

<p>You are correct: all IB teachers are supposed to be trained by IBO. </p>

<p>The school near me which offers IB is listed by the IBO as an IB World School. Being listed there is definitely not a sign of a quality implementation; it just means they've purchased the program.</p>

<p>Here's information the IBO offers about one school in my state:</p>

<p>
[quote]
In the last examination session, students completed the following exams: Biology HL, Chemistry SL, English A1 HL, Environ.Syst SL, French B HL, French B SL, History HL, Information Technology in Global Society HL, Information Technology in Global Society SL, Math.Studies SL, Mathematics HL, Mathematics SL, Music HL, Music SL, Physics HL, Physics SL, Spanish Ab. SL, Spanish B HL, Spanish B SL, Theatre Arts HL, Theory Knowl. TK, Visual Arts HL and Visual Arts SL.

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</p>

<p>Here's one in a neighboring city:</p>

<p>
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In the last examination session, students completed the following exams: Biology HL, English A1 HL, History HL, Math.Studies SL, Music SL, Psychology SL, Spanish B SL and Theory Knowl. TK.

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</p>

<p>Quite a difference. </p>

<p>AND..... here's one more, in my state:</p>

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In the last examination session, students completed the following exams: Chemistry SL.

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</p>

<p>ONE subject. SL. </p>

<p>I've said it before and will say it again: implementation is key!</p>

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<p>Some additonal languages that were taken in the last IB examination at the United World College (may 2007) in addition to French and Spanish.</p>

<p>Dzongkha A 1 ( Spoken in Bhutan)
Portuguese A1
Indonesian A1
Swahili A1
Latvian A1
Turkish A1
Russian A1
SiSwati A1
Arabic A1
Farsi A1
Swedish A1
Estonian A1
Mandarin A1
Thai A1
Ukrianian A1</p>

<p>and a bunch of other self taught languages</p>

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<p>Hello.
I came across this post because I am researching the IB program for parents in my state who are diametrically opposed to it.</p>

<p>This program is administered from Geneva, Switzerland by the UN's UNESCO division. I have found that it is more about mission than education. Surely you will have good teachers who will not slant the program, but according to the IBO, the mission must be upheld in order to offer the program at all. Eventually, the IBO prefers that the school become a total 'world school' or stop altogether. Furthermore the program requires all students to do community service in addition to the many hours of homework.</p>

<p>For those who don't know where the TOK program came from, here is an interesting link:
Theory</a> of Knowledge by Bertrand Russell</p>

<p>I see this course as necessary to change the attitudes and beliefs and values of the students. These beliefs may be in conflict with what their parents have taught them or what their religion teaches them, or what they believe.</p>

<p>Part of the mission of the IB program is introducing and getting acceptance for the many goals of the UN's world government as outlined in many documents such as the UDHR and Earth Charter and Millenium Development Goals. Most of these go contrary to our US Constitution and Bill of Rights such as the Second Amendment. This is why parents are objecting to having the UN control their curriculum. The UN already controls the curriculum to some degree via the Fed Dept of Education and mandates like Goals 2000 which enforce UN demands. I prefer local control to handing over my child's education to the UN.</p>

<p>This is not about 'old' teachers who can't change the way they do things, but about people and parents who don't wish to promote the UN world government over the US form of government. They would rather see their children taught skills without the political agenda that is woven into the curriculum. Even as a teacher under Goals 2000 I saw this and that teacher 'retraining' was nothing more than attitudes adujustment and be trained to forget about teaching skills, at least in the lower grades.</p>

<p>If you would like to see more documents, such as one entitled "IB: Education for Disarmament" then please join the Yahoo Group USPEIN and go to the files section.</p>

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<p>My S graduated from an IB program in Virginia last June as valedictorian. He is now a freshman at UVA and started with over 35 hours of advanced credit. While in high school, he was in debate (captain last 2 years), scholastic bowl (captain as a senior), Model UN and Battle of the Brains (all considered sports by the Virginia High School League, eligible for school letters). The only activity he couldnt manage with his other ECs was the crew team after soph year. His ECs were all his choice. He also had a part time job but limited working to occasional weekends during the school year and had a girlfriend! He took AP exams in Government, French, US history, Euorpean history, comparative government, biology, calculus and English and received 5s on all.
My D is now a freshman in pre-IB and played varsity volleyball in the fall (starting libero) and is now playing varsity soccer (starting sweeper) and is playing club volleyball. She also is first in her class and has time for friends and movies. Students that are motivated and organized will be able to manage both IB and varsity sports or other ECs if they so choose.</p>

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<p>
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Students that are motivated and organized will be able to manage both IB and varsity sports or other ECs if they so choose.

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</p>

<p>Depends on the implementation at the particular school. Really.</p>

<p>Edited to add -- see these posts on this very thread: </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060257066-post9.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060257066-post9.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060257254-post13.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1060257254-post13.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>My daughter got her IB diploma last year -- at a school that has had an IB program for 20 years and has an over 90% diploma pass rate every year. (My daughter's year, it was 100%.)</p>

<p>She feels that she received excellent preparation for college. She also liked being in a high school program with other academically oriented kids, even though the time commitment for schoolwork was much greater than in the regular curriculum.</p>

<p>For her, IB was a positive thing.</p>

<p>But I would not have wanted her to be in a brand-new IB program. IB is complicated. It takes years to implement it well and get it running smoothly. I would not want my kid to be a guinea pig in an IB program that is just getting started. There's too much potential for failure on the school's part, which can lead to failure and frustration on the students' part.</p>

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<p>I think , therefore IB :D</p>

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<p>Teacher 35! lol! are your from Kansas? Do you teach creationism?<br>
Sorry, couldn't help it.</p>

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<p>Teacher 35, I guess that explains the black helicopters that were always circling around the school.</p>

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<p>^^ROTFL! ten characters</p>

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<p>Owl; My son didn't take any AP classes or tests, so we never really looked into if the colleges accepted the credit. I have to assume that the 4 of 7 that gave credit for IB also gave for AP. While I've heard of some giving AP but NOT IB, I haven't heard of the other way around. Of the remaining schools, I know for a fact that 2 of them don't give actual credit for either IB or AP. They allow using them for placement so they aren't forced to take certain pre-requisites. But they don't give actual credit. The 7th; I have no idea if they give credit for AP.</p>

<p>Teacher; you bring up some very compelling issues concerning the IBO and the United Nations (UNESCO). I personally am not a very big fan of the UN. Having work with UN personnel, I have seen 1st hand some of the screw ups. But just like our country, nothing is perfect. Many of the things I am against the UN on are issues that I believe the "WORLD" is not ready for; therefor they shouldn't be trying to address. I.e Using a world court to impose sentence or judgment on the USA is wrong, considering certain voting members of the UN are members of countries who have the worst civil rights enforcement. But; having said that; I believe that the day may come; probably not in my lifetime; where the world is ready for a world government. So, while the UN is not necessarily good for many things today, I believe that as it and the world evolves, it will work it out.</p>

<p>As far as their involvement in the education system with the IBO, I don't agree that there is some underlying agenda to subvert the United States or any other sovereign nation. I have no problem with the IBO not being a government entity. It would never work if it was. How do you have 1 government try to control the education of a program in 90 countries? But of course, you may reply that is the purpose of joining with UNESCO. Personally, I don't see that either. Part of the IB history that you didn't see posted there, was even though it was started by European diplomats wanting their children to have a common education, that isn't the whole story. Most of those European diplomats learned this concept from the United States Department of Defense. </p>

<p>All over the world, American military had their families with them. Unless you were stationed in England, most of the time you didn't really speak the language. As such, the Department of Defense started their own school system. DODDS (Department of Defense Dependent Schools) which has also become DODEA (Department of Defense Education Activity). The Department of Defense designed a school system that was the same for all military dependent students all over the world. Just like a county or state school district ensures all their schools follow certain guidelines, the DOD did the same with their schools. A 7th graded in Germany, Spain, England, Japan, Italy, etc.... were all taught the same. And for what it's worth, DODDS schools usually ranked very well when it came to educating their kids. This evolved also with a lot of other government workers such as state department at embassies and consulates needing a place to send their kids. Then private American Company workers working overseas in the oil companies and other businesses looked for sending their kids to school. Some could go to the DODDS schools, but that wasn't always available or practical. This is what lead to European diplomats (Many of who sent their kids to AMERICAN SCHOOLS OVERSEAS) to develop and education that was similar. One that could be world wide with the same common core and also beneficial from a global perspective. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this premise.</p>

<p>And, looking at my son's schedule of classes, I find it difficult to see how any of these classes could be influenced politically or subverted by the UN or any other organization. My son's IB classes include Spanish, Math, World Literature, World History, Music, Physics, and TOK. He also took Psychology, but that's not an IB class. It's an elective. Now, I guess a subverting entity could somehow change the world history book if they wanted to distort the truth. But there's really no way to distort math (It's finite), Physics (It's pretty absolute), Literature (These people are dead, you can't change their writings or meaning), music (I guess if you're into rap), Spanish (Not even going to answer that one). </p>

<p>The point is; educationally, the IB program is excellent. I have been involved with it for about 8 years. I have seen the kids that have graduated (With or without the degree is irrelevant) and how they did in college. Overall, IB students do much better in college than non IB students. Yes, they have a little bit different perspective on the world that many of the parents who haven't been out of their state let alone traveled the world. I'm fortunate that I have lived and worked in 15 countries. My daughter and son were born overseas and have lived in more than 1 country. Maybe in 30-40 years, if we are all still alive and Al Gore's global warming hasn't killed us all; maybe some of our more open minded and better educated children can find a way for countries to all live in peace. All have respect for human life and rights. Overall be a better world. I would like that now. I am very much a supporter of our constitution and bill of rights. I know many other countries. The UN "Dream" and such isn't ready for the world because much of the world isn't ready for it. But we are evolving. 50 years ago we were isolationists. We were self sustaining and didn't need anyone else in the world. We have become more of a world economy. Not because of some subvert 1 world government, but because of the nature of technology. It has made the world a smaller place. Goods can be made overseas cheaper and shipped back. Whatever the reason, we are becoming a world economy. Economies run the world. The economy will have the greatest impact on peace in the world. China and Russia have already shown how they will give into individual's rights so that their economy could grow. Even Cuba is allowing cell phones and the internet now. They have to. As that grows, the economy grows, people's dreams and desires grow, human rights grow, etc... Eventually, some day the planet may be ready for a 1 world government. Not today and not for a while, but some day. Anyway, sorry for going off track on the IB program. I just think that if a person is going to put out such a negative opinion of the IB program, they ought to at least have their facts straight. Especially a teacher. I've done a fare share of teaching and I know what our kids are capable of doing. If the parents and teachers wouldn't limit them so much.</p>

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<p>My son's school offers both AP and IB courses. Only few students sign up to do IB, even though the system tries to recruit for it very hard. They are really pushing my younger son's 8th grade class on the issue, even though they don't really have to make that decision till they get ready to start their junior year. The program is about 5 years old, but still has problems attracting students.</p>

<p>My older son has taken a mixture of AP and IB courses, based mostly on which teachers were teaching what. He chose not to do the full IB program because he found it too limiting. Students take 7 courses all four years, which leaves about 3 electives each semester after taking the basic academic courses. Of course, then you have to add in 2 to 3 years of language, health, PE and, for many students, driver's ed (which is now required by our state to get a driver's license, so you take it at school or pay elsewhere). My oldest son wanted to take the most advanced chorus and band classes offered, and also wanted to include music theory--there just wasn't enough room. We had a national merit finalist last year who basically took every advanced math class there was, and then was dual-enrolled at the community college to take math there. He was not an IB student because the structure of the program would not have allowed him to do that.</p>

<p>But honestly, we have seen very little difference in the quality of my son's learning between AP and IB. What always matters more is how good the teacher is teaching the class. He's been accepted to some very nice private universities this year, and they didn't seem to care if he had AP or IB courses.</p>

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<p>Not to get this topic going in the wrong direction; but I will agree that you won't see too much difference in taking AP and IB classes. The difference comes in when you are in the IB program. As a program, it's a totally different environment. It's a way of education, NOT a class of instruction. Combined with CAS, TOK, and a core group of teachers, it's a different way of school. The fact that your school allows kids to take individual IB classes; I guess is good. I've been to and visited about 5 different IB programs at various schools. The only kids who took IB classes were those in the IB program. Not saying you can't, just that most don't. Some IB students will take an occasional AP class as one of their electives, but usually only if it's a field they are really passionate about.</p>

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<p>This is from a student perspective I guess, but full IB is hell upon Earth. I'm a veteran (just waiting to take the tests so I can go home to die) and literally, a good deal of my time has revolved around it. It has reached the point that any free time I have feels foreign because I am so unfamiliar with it. I've had time to do other activities, but not as much as if I took AP or honors classes. There's really no way to describe it, but going through IB is pretty much a rite of passage. Full IB students should know what I'm talking about. Sometimes it drives people to desperation, I'm just thankful I kept on the path. But I haven't had a good night's sleep these past two years though. I miss those days.</p>

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<p>
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But I haven't had a good night's sleep these past two years though.

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</p>

<p>This is what college is for.</p>

<p>One of the things that my IB-graduate daughter and her friends like most about college is that they can finally get an adequate amount of sleep. </p>

<p>This may sound odd because college students have the reputation of staying up all night. But I don't think that stereotype applies to the ex-IB kids. They have years of sleep deprivation to overcome.</p>

<p>As for the political stuff, yes, there is some of it in IB. But anyone who isn't smart enough to recognize propaganda for what it is isn't smart enough to be in an IB program, anyway.</p>