<p>The places are A LOT less sketchy than they were in the 1970s, and, as for the State Department's warning list, if there are students from Korea, China, Italy, England, Spain, Morocco, and everywhere else BUT the U.S., I suspect it is because there is something awfully with the State Department's "intelligence" (but we already knew that, didn't we? ;)</p>
<p>Tight it is. So? (my d's at prestige LAC working at BOTH bookstores during the school year, and 80 hours a week during the summer were no picnic either.) And students can't make money like they used to relative to the cost of things, even if the costs are actually lower (adjusted for straight inflation) than they were back then. </p>
<p>And most Americans are definitely poorer relative to their European counterparts - no question of that.</p>
<p>But...now to compare actual notes on "sketchiness". Back in 1973, I did the Athens/Crete thing. In Athens, I stayed on the roof of a hotel which had housed Rachmaninoff 60 years earlier on his escape from Russia, in my sleeping back. My d, at roughly the same or slightly lower price, adjusted for inflation, stayed at the Students and Travellers Inn (link previously provided) right in the Plaka, within walking distance of the Acropolis.</p>
<p>In 1973, I took the boat to Crete. I stayed on the deck overnight in my sleeping bag, with sailors all around, and brought my own food and drink. (I'll admit it was awfully fun!) My d. took the same boat which is now set up with cushy airline seats, and an inexpensive restaurant on board. (and you can actually now book in advance at a student rate, which you couldn't back then.)</p>
<p>Once in Crete, I mostly slept on beaches, or back in the hills, occasionally in the room let from a local inhabitant (at a relatively, for me, exorbitant) rate. My d. found beautiful low-cost pensions all over the island. And you can e-mail 'em before you get there, and have a room waiting.</p>
<p>Do you know what the Italian police were like back in 1972? Things are so much safer now. Crime rates are much lower. Neighborhoods are well lit; information is far easier to come by. Police are much more helpful. </p>
<p>"I'll also throw in that there are more of us who would not permit our kids to live the way we did back in our day."</p>
<p>Might depend what economic class you are NOW in, relative to those of your parents.</p>
<p>"Out of term, I DID stay at San Frediano in Florence (cost me a dollar a night), and for another dollar, went to a "restaurant" run by a group of nuns where from 4 to 10 p.m. they fed you all the chicken and red wine you could consume. Another break I slept on the beach in Crete, and ate fried sardines (quite tasty); another one, I squatted with a friend in Munich, and hitchhiked to Vienna on Christmas Eve to get a standing room ticket on the fourth balcony of the Opera for Die Fledermaus."</p>
<p>mini, that sounds amazing, like something out of a movie... and I am not sure if I will ever be able to do that. First of all - I've allways lived in comfortable places; I never go anywhere without my antibacterial hand lotion, and I feel gross if I am not able to brush my teeth at least twice a day. I have never been financially restricted, so I am worried whether I could pull it off next year. My second concern about this whole Europe experience: visas. Don't you need one for every country you travel to? And I'll only have a british one...</p>
<p>Nope. No visas needed. (unless you want to work, or do formal study.)</p>
<p>Rest assured - Europe is now MUCH more civilized than 30 years ago, even on the low-end of things, as my d. has discovered. My own opinion is that it is easier to be economical AND comfortable now. </p>
<p>When I was Oxford, if you couldn't stay in college during break, they had arrangements with local boarding houses and apartments. Many students after their first year would choose to rent a house together, which was highly economical as well, and didn't leave one with the problem of moving in and out. (For me, even in the 70s, it was a veritable United Nations!)</p>
<p>Anyhow, it will be great for you to have such wonderful choices. Congratulations to you whatever you do, but if you can swing the Oxford thing, in my opinion you will feel sorry if you pass it up.</p>
<p>nelle, even if it turns out that you can't manage Oxford for your entire degree, could you not study abroad for a year here anyway? There are always tons of JYA students in Oxford, and it seems like lots of them enjoy themselves so much that they come back and do their Masters degree here! So you do have other options. </p>
<p>Oxford and Princeton actually have a dedicated exchange programme for Biochem - it's only a semester, not the whole academic year, but at least you'd get a taste! May be worth looking in to...</p>
<p>No... I had a humongous list of US schools, couldn't choose between them, and got so frustrated! Then I clicked on the Oxford website... and simply fell in love. I didn't let myself linger too long on the virtual tours, though, before I was accepted (was afraid I'd get too addicted to the place). Why do you ask?</p>
<p>Would you have a chance to visit before you commit to attend? I ask because your prior posts don't seem to indicated a lot of knowledge about what you are getting into. (i.e. how the degrees are awarded). I would go to Oxford in a heartbeat as would my daughter but we have been to England many times. Even though we speak the same language (after a fashion!) it is a foreign country and unless you were familiar with the culture I would think that the stress of starting college coupled with a completely foreign enrvironment could be very stressful. Maybe your parents realize this too?</p>
<p>Yep, Mini, partly economic class, partly the "culture" in which we are raising these kids. I'm ashamed to say that I would not want to let my kids go abroad or even traveling in the US under the conditions and constraints I was under at their age. Overprotective, yes, but not on that single situation. The overprotection started long ago and has stretched out to these years, and we are now slowly trying to unravel the cocoon. </p>
<p>Still, I would not hesitate to send a kid to Oxford or many other like unis out of the country. However, I would think that it is very, very important that those who go there know what it is like. It may not be for you. It is not like many of our US colleges. I sometimes feel that this visiting business has gone too far with kids these days, and though, sometimes very beneficial, too often it is not. For those kids who are not so set on anything, to compare two colleges that are so very much a like is getting awfully picky. But for a whole different culture , I would want to visit, and have my student visit as well. You also need to know all about the system such as how the degrees are awarded, what the holiday rules are and what international kids do during those periods. Even the cost issues are difficult to gauge until you actually go there and see what your money buys. It may not be what you want, or it may way preferable to the US system for you. I suggest, at very least, that you start researching how things work over there and hone in on the specifics. If there is any possible way to visit, you should. I don't see many kids shedding tears going to Harvard vs Princeton vs Yale, as they have the same US system that is familiar to most students. But Oxford is a whole different story.</p>
<p>Nelle, studying at Oxford can be a really fantastic experience - as long as you understand exactly what you're letting yourself in for. There are lots of traditions here that take some getting used to - hearing Latin benediction over meals, for example. Wearing an academic gown to take exams (not even Cambridge has that one!). And then there are the real academic differences, like having an essay you have spent all night writing ripped to pieces in a tutorial. Having to schedule a trip to an obscure library on the other side of the city because it has the only copy of an obscure book you need. </p>
<p>It's quite often a very alien experience even for those of us from the UK - for an international student it would be even harder, because you'd essentially be dealing with two cultures (i.e. 'mainstream British', and 'Oxford') at once.</p>
<p>I am honestly not trying to put you off - I love Oxford, and I would recommend it to just about anyone. But you do have to understand what you're signing up for.</p>
<p>Haha, why do you think I am posting on boards like this? I'm definitely doing lots of research now, and have yet to do much much more. What you have said has been really helpful. As for different cultures/traditions, I am pretty flexible: I lived and went to school in five different countries before the age of 10. </p>
<p>Wow, the essay... Oxford tutors are intense, aren't they? Are there any more fascinating traditions I should know about so I am not completely shocked when/if I get there?</p>
<p>No, some Oxford tutors are intense, and some not, and some alcoholic - you'll see more than a few with their morning sherry. Mostly, you'll get ripped apart by your fellow students if you share a tutorial, which is as it should be.</p>
<p>Yes. And let me tell - from firsthand experience - it will be good for you. You will learn to write and to think on your feet in ways you will never experience at ANY U.S. colleges or universities (I attended Williams, and taught undergrads at UChicago.)</p>
<p>Oxford doesn't have a "cult" of finished work. They know and acknowledge you are an undergraduate - the very grading of finals (with 70 being a first-class) reflects that. You are considered a work in progress, as is your work, and the idea is to develop your mind and capabilities through forceful give-and-take. It is isn't for everyone, and Oxbridge have moved in the last several decades a bit closer toward the U.S. collegial seminar style.</p>
<p>Lol, mini's right about some tutors literally being alcoholics - one of my friends has had tutorials in the local pub, and another has had them in a punt on the river, complete with Pimms. I guess my tutors are just boring though ;)</p>
<p>Also, mini's right about your fellow students - often they will try and tear your essays apart. I've done it, and it's been done to me, many times. Despite that, I've found that the atmosphere here is incredibly un-cutthroat actually - during a tutorial people will compete with each other, but outside everyone tries to help everyone else. There's a general feeling that it's better to tear someone apart in a tutorial than see them do badly in an exam. </p>
<p>Other traditions.... let me think. ;) I think it's got to the stage now where I don't even notice many of them any more! I just think 'Oh well, it's Oxford, of course strange things will be happening.' But my favourite is May Morning, when everyone in the city gets up at dawn and walks to Magdalen College to hear the choir from Magdalen Boys' School sing at the top of the tower. Basically the whole day is just a big party, with people dancing in the streets and little stalls selling food and drinks. It is fantastic, there's such a great atmosphere. :)</p>