Any Upper Middle black posters in the house?

Parents Forum
81

<p>SuperMom -</p>

<p>My D had identical SATs (580V/680M) w/ Nat Ach recognition, and attended very compet day school and boarding sch, APs in math - - but w/ lower GPA, than your D. And as one who attended and was comfortable at predom White schs, D had no interest in HBCUs (too bad about FAMU, it was on my list for D3).</p>

<p>Even after submitting her transcript, D was invited to the competitive fly-in prgms at Scripps. Oberlin and Kenyon, and ultimately enrolled at a top 20 LAC (admittedly well-hooked: ED, legacy, urm and DI caliber athlete) w/ generous finaid. Other schs on her list: URoch, Hamilton, Bates, ConnCollege, Case and Trinity. She was courted by all (except Trin, which she hated). If she hadn't been admitted ED to her #1 sch, she probab would have added CMC to her list (Harvey Mudd urged her to apply but she found the curric too restrictive).</p>

<p>We too have six figure income, but I assumed we'd get aid and didn't really look for merit $ (D did, however, rec prelim merit offer from Wooster, one of her safeties). Also, having attended compet sch, D wanted to attend sch (arguably) the same caliber as her peers (not quite since most they go HYP, other Ivy or Little 3).</p>

<p>Anyway, she's happy and we can afford it (w/o coughing up a kidney or eating dog food) - - so a very happy ending (and before Xmas, to boot!).</p>

<p>PM me if you want details.</p>

82

<p>Madville -</p>

<p>Your S should do even better than my D!</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

83

<p>Hate to be such a nervous nilly, but hard to gauge EFC and know how coveted S would be in FA terms. 20k(safeties)-50k+(reaches) is a lot of money especially when you don't have it. With D is was much easier, as it was in writing prior to her apps, so we knew exactly how much she was wanted. In many respects on paper, S is in an enviable position with regard to possible accetances, but I have no assurances from those schools that S is interested in, how much that will translate into FA. Our hope is for a mutually beneficial situation. The encouraging posts and PM's are appreciated.</p>

84

<p>nyc - Thank you! Now that's the sorta detail I was hoping for! Mega-Congrats on your D! She's class of 2008 and you guys already know? I thought EA/ED had an 11/1 deadline? I figured we wouldn't hear anything until just before Xmas! You listed a lot of places we hadn't thought to look <em>pulling out the big fat college ref books & adjusting the reading glasses</em> -- I guess I've got some readin' to do!</p>

<p>Madville - 3 cheers for your triple-threat S (black, male, & kickin' academic a**)! I can't wait to hear the acceptance success stories, and hope you'll post 'em here!</p>

<p>Shrinkrap - my D's been a Girl Scout since the day she turned 5 <em>laughing</em>. The program made a significant impression on me as a 1st generation immigrant/single parent/poverty-level kid in 70s South Boston. I've been a staunch supporter in the improved circumstances of adulthood. Too bad the GS Gold Award doesn't get the equivalent props of the Boy Scout Eagle. It also comes with less scholarship potential.</p>

<p>Re: where we "camped" in LA, I'm ashamed to say that my older scouts (ages 14-18) having benefited from the struggles of their parents, no longer share my appreciation for the rustic accoutrements of the typical campsite. We bunked out at the Wilshire Grand. <em>rolling eyes</em> (grudging admission: these old bones didn't exactly complain).</p>

<p>To all - my apologies for the departure from topic. When I finally get some time tonight, I'll see if I can scope out the directions for how to "PM."</p>

85

<p>D is currently in her first year of college (applied last year, enrolled Sept 2008).</p>

<p>Also, base on anecdotal evid from families whose kids had similar (or lesser) profiles, merit $ was better than 50/50 at Case.</p>

86

<p>madville and supermom - </p>

<p>I sent you a PM.</p>

87

<p>Umm...</p>

<p>I feel excluded...</p>

<p>:(</p>

<p>Why do top schools only recruit AA's with wealth (middle-class and above) or a wealth of opportunities (going to an elite boarding school, etc.,)? My GC never heard of Questbridge (and neither did I) and Amherst certainly didn't invite me. None of my school's top students have ever been invited anywhere (even though...their scores are generally pretty low...but still).</p>

<p>Even Amherst's Anthony Jack went to an elite prep school.</p>

<p>It's a shame.</p>

88

<p>
[quote]
Why do top schools only recruit AA's with wealth (middle-class and above) or a wealth of opportunities (going to an elite boarding school, etc.,)?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As a person who works and mentors at a low income school with a large URM population, I can say that this is definitely not the case as I have had quite a few students attend the ivies and elite LACs. A number of parents in this forum have worked with a number low income students (some right here on CC) who were accepted to Dartmouth, Brown, Yale, Princeton, Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Claremont, Bowdoin, Columbia, Cornell, Barnard and an array of schools with merit $$.</p>

89

<p>
[quote]
As a person who works and mentors at a low income school with a large URM population, I can say that this is definitely not the case as I have had quite a few students attend the ivies and elite LACs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As a graduate from a low-income inner-city school that was 90% African-American, I can say that it definitely was the case -- no one from my school has ever attended a school greater than the state's flagship. It is not a new school by any measure. And it is not an isolated incident or anomaly. I know several schools that are similar. Perhaps we're thinking of two different kinds of "low-income" schools. Perhaps I'm thinking of low-income, low opportunity schools were there isn't anyone to work with students -- where the top students feel their only options are to attend community college or overpriced HBCUs. No one knows of Williams, Amherst, Pomona, Claremont, Bowdoin, or Barnard, and most don't consider Brown anything other than the color of their skin. </p>

<p>Like I said, the students that need Questbridge and programs like it the most don't seem to get it.</p>

90

<p>Our state flagship used hardcore Affirmative Action to admit students from my school district. I suppose Cal can't do that. </p>

<p>EDIT: I suppose my post is completely out of context now, lol.</p>

<p>On a lighter note, why, exactly, are HBCU's so stingy with FA?</p>

91

<p>Gap,</p>

<p>If its the case that you're referring to schools where the kids don't even realize they CAN apply to ivies because there's no adult mentor to guide them, then one can scarcely fault the colleges for not recruiting a kid who hasn't applied.</p>

<p>On the flip side, I'm not sure it's always the best idea for a kid from the type of environment you mention to pursue an ivy or top LAC education. I'm the posterchild for what happens to a kid who's improperly prepared. </p>

<p>A scholarship kid at a Mass. private elementary school in Harvard's shadow, I was aware of the meaning of a great LAC. In later years, I attended predominantly black high schools, received inflated grades on a curve, yet landed NMSF status. Against my GC's advice, I applied to and attended Rice U (I was turned down - wisely - by Princeton). I'd flunked out within 2 years due to improper preparation and the lack of school or other resources to catch me up to speed. That scenario is a devastating blow to the morale and self-image of a kid who was accustomed to success back where they came from. </p>

<p>Years later, of course, I regrouped, finished at one state school and earned a law degree at another. That state school education allows me to give my Ds the "opportunities" today that you refer to in your post. So hey, don't dis' a flagship education! There's a lot to be said substance over prestige.</p>

92

<p>That's an interesting story. It am worried about my d's readiness for where she might get in. Her HS had only one kid go to a flagship u; forget Ivies and the like. Yesterday at parent-teacher conference I explained subject tests to the honors bio + English teachers. This is in Cal where you have to take subject tests to get into the state university. This is not a black school, but it is a small Christian one.</p>

93

<p>I wouldn't worry. If you're child's able to be accepted, she is able to excel and graduate. The only reason to worry is if she's pursuing a science. The rigor of a top science program, would any under preparation more apparent. But even then, she could do well.</p>

<p>Remember, graduation rates, particularly for AAs, are always the best at top colleges. No worries.</p>

94

<p>Gap; Sorry about my previous edit. I felt it was off topic. I did say pretty much the same thing in # 92 (I think). BTW, my d's school doesn't have a GC. I've been coming here for "opportunities" but "Venture Scholars" (which emailed her after PSAT's or SAT's) has "hooked her up" a few times.Questbridged emailed to be she doesn't fit their profile.</p>

<p>Ps, I believe HBCU's are stingy because their alum's are stingy. (including me, but I'm working on it).</p>

95

<p>
[quote]
Why do top schools only recruit AA's with wealth (middle-class and above) or a wealth of opportunities (going to an elite boarding school, etc.,)? My GC never heard of Questbridge (and neither did I) and Amherst certainly didn't invite me. None of my school's top students have ever been invited anywhere (even though...their scores are generally pretty low...but still).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Even though my son has been able to attend a prep school for 8 years now the primary school search engine has been me. When my S took his standardized tests, none were submitted to schools until after his initial results. My S school has both 100% graduation and 4 year college matriculation rate, but GC had never heard of CC, QB, JBHE, Venture scholars or many of the other opportunities/resources presented to us. (He knows now, lol!) The selective schools never recruited my S until we contacted them. The same was for my D. Searched the internet, devised a strategy, implemented it, and that paid huge dividends. Necessity is the mother of invention (especially when those funds are low) and it has been delightful working with S to go through this process together. This site in particular has been an awesome networking tool and abundant source of information. If you believe that your academic profile would put you in contention for an opportunity at an elite school,( or any school for that matter) take the initiative, contact those schools and move forward. There are many here that are willing to help you navigate the process.</p>

96

<p>What is JBHE ? Another "pearl" (as a very useful bit of info is called in the practice of medicine).?</p>

<p>oh, it's the journal...</p>

97

<p>The stereotype of stingy HBCUs is very stale. These days HBCUs that seek to raise their profile know that they have to vigorously compete for promising high school graduates. Thus, a school like North Carolina Central University provides full tuition scholarships and laptop computers for high achievers. I know a west coast public school alumnus who got a full ride (and a great education) at Prairie View A&M University and is now in medical school.</p>

98

<p>I dunno NearL . . . while there may be 10 success stories for each one of mine, statistics seem to indicate that the grad rate for blacks is pretty dismal -- even at some of the nation's top LACs</p>

<p>Ex: (quote from the JBHE)
Black Student College Graduation Rates Inch Higher But a Large Racial Gap Persists</p>

<p>Throughout the nation, black enrollments in higher education have reached an all-time high. But a more important statistical measure of the performance of blacks in higher education is that of how many black students are completing school and earning a college degree. . . .</p>

<p>For many years Harvard University, traditionally one of the nation’s strongest supporters of affirmative action, has produced the highest black student graduation rate of any college or university in the nation. But for some unexplained and possibly immaterial reason, Harvard slipped to second place in 2004. But now the 2006 data shows Harvard’s black student graduation rate has increased to 95 percent, once again the highest among U.S. colleges and universities.</p>

<p>Amherst College, the small liberal arts college in western Massachusetts, now has a black student graduation rate of 94 percent, the second highest in the nation. Williams College, Wellesley College, and Princeton University also post a black student graduation rate of 94 percent. Four other highly ranked colleges and universities in the United States posted a black student graduation rate of 90 percent or above. They are Brown University, Washington University, Stanford University, and Yale University.</p>

<p>Twelve other high-ranking institutions have a black student graduation of 86 percent or above. </p>

<p>Among the nation’s colleges and universities that are commonly rated as selective, the lowest black student graduation rate occurs at Carleton College in Minnesota. Currently only 66 percent of the black freshmen who enroll at Carleton College go on to graduate. Among the high-ranking universities, the lowest black student graduation rate is at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh. </p>

<p>read more here (including helpful lists of top and bottom-performing schools in terms of grad rates): Black</a> Student College Graduation Rates Inch Higher But the Large Racial Gap Persists</p>

<p>The moral of the story? It probably pays to do our homework. Colleges w/high black grad rates have evidently invested in the resources necessary to help our kids from all socioeconomic strata fare well. A great LAC ain't necessarily great for all.</p>

99

<p>
[quote]
Why do top schools only recruit AA's with wealth (middle-class and above) or a wealth of opportunities (going to an elite boarding school, etc.,)?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>D attends a rural public h/s. I think the key to being recruited or at least being on a school’s radar is taking the PSAT. Once D took the PSAT the letters and brochures started to come. The letters gave her a personal ID# or pass code to go on their web-site and register (provide more info and confirm URM status). This also happened after she took the ACT. Again, I think the key was going on-line and answering the ACT’s registration questions (race, GAP, courses completed, school activities, athletics, ECs, etc). The College Board and ACT sends this info to the schools, who in turn adds the student to their mailing lists.</p>

<p>Some schools have shown intense interest and others only token interest. We have been very selective in the building D’s application list -mainly trying to find the right fit for her and looking at the school’s AfAm graduation rate. We are not wealthy but have lived modestly and saved some $$. We didn’t want $$ to be a limiting factor in her final selection. I hope it all works out in the end.</p>

100

<p>
[quote]
, statistics seem to indicate that the grad rate for blacks is pretty dismal -- even at some of the nation's top LACs

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The colleges in question: Middlebury and Carleton have terrible reputations for self-segregration and racism. And they're both in the middle of nowhere. Students aren't dropping out, they're transferring.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, most other LACs have respectable graduation rates for their black students.</p>

<p>Also, it should be stated that LACs have small black enrollments, and a single transfer can make a relatively large change in a school black graduation rate.</p>

<p>While LACs aren't great for everyone, a student that's under prepared would probably do well to attend one if only because they're generally more nurturing that research universities. </p>

<p>...as long as it isn't in the middle of nowhere :D</p>