Given that 84% of those doctors, nurses and ancillary staff testing positive at UCSF were vaccinated (2 hospitalized), the point is that breakthru cases are becoming more prevalent.
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As Delta has become the most prevalent strain in Israel, the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine in completely preventing infection has dropped to 39%, as most recently reported in a large HMO study in Israel. However, the Pfizer vaccine has done a lot better at preventing serious disease (meaning keeps people from needing to be hospitalized) or death, although some elderly have died despite having been fully immunized (about 6 months ago). The data from Israel is likely to be reliable, because they have a socialized healthcare system from which it is easy to quickly collect accurate data. It also has been found there that the efficacy of the vaccine has dropped proportionally according to how long ago the person completed the 2-shot series, but that conclusion is clouded by the fact that the first people to have been immunized were the elderly, who were likely to have mounted a less robust immune response, and who are more medically vulnerable overall.
No one was expecting that low efficacy against Delta in Israel; hence, the hesitancy to accept that clinical data, which is a lot more âreal worldâ than measuring antibody levels in participants in vaccine trials. Also, Delta hit there at least a month earlier than here. But the explosion of Covid due to Delta variant in Provincetown, which was overflowing with partying vaccinated vacationers taking no precautions, supports the data coming out of Israel.
As mentioned above, the UK delayed second doses until everyone had had a first dose. That means that second doses were only recently administered - hence people could be expected to have a higher antibody titer right now, than those who completed the series more than 6 months ago.
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That slide deck references this report for methods, although the report is from May 15, 2021 and does not include any recent data that the slides apparently refer to:
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736(21)00947-8
Figure 2 of that report does show that Israel aggressively started with the 65+ age group, of which about 75% had the first dose by early January, and 75% had the second dose by early February (from a starting point of vaccinations in late December). Also, health care workers were presumably within the earliest vaccination groups and probably make up many of the early vaccinated younger people.
So one must be careful about attributing all of the apparent decreased vaccine effectiveness in early vaccinated groups to waning immunity, as opposed to that occurring because the earlier vaccinated groups were the ones most likely to have breakthrough infections in the first place.
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Iâm there. Second shot was six months ago. Most health care workers are there tooâŠif they got shots when offered initially
Does any vaccine require a prescription? I can walk into my local drugstore randomly and get flu shots and covid shots.
Also pretty sure 350 million covid shots in the US were administered with absolutely none of them being prescribed by an MD so far this year.
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We are talking about shots over and beyond what is permitted under the FDAâs Emergency Use Authorization for Pfizer, Moderna, and J&J/Janssen.
The issue is whether you could walk into, for example, a Walgreenâs and ask them to give you a booster. Absent an EUA for a booster or a doctorâs prescription, I doubt very much whether Walgreenâs would (or could) administer the booster. I may be wrong, and Iâm happy to stand corrected if so.
Remember that these are NOT fully approved FDA vaccines.
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Agreed, which is why I continue to watch their data as it comes out. We should see a difference within the next two months if there is going to be one.
Itâs also why medical lad has signed up to see if he can get in booster trials. His last dose was back in Jan.
Walgreens, no, perhaps not. Not all chains ask questions about prior vaccinations though. And not all people respond truthfully
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I would assume that all legitimate vaccination sites (which I am sure are vetted carefully) would check to see if a person had already been vaccinated. In California, all of this is recorded in a central registry AFAIK.
Any organization (including, but not limited to, Walgreenâs) would be taking on a heap of potential liability to administer a booster absent FDA approval or a prescription. Again, as far as I know. If you have other better information, I would be happy to admit Iâm wrong.
Your assumption is wrong. Few sites have time or interest in checking the registry, not all states even have an accurate registry, and many undocumented residents and visitors were never recorded as even having shots. And of course, many live close to state borders anyway. But none of this matters as you are not interested in a booster anyway.
Did you really think when you stop by for a tetanus booster they check to see when your last one was? Or mumps, chickenpox, etc. Outbreaks of all are not uncommon on college campuses and kids stop in for boosters.
You seem to be quite certain of your thesis. You also seem to be quite certain about whether I want a booster. Remarkable!
I would love to see cites to any of this given that you purport to be authoritative on everything you say. For every CV-19 virus vaccine that our family has taken, we have had to provide tons of information including ID (and likely insurance). If you didnât have it, thatâs another thing.
Do you really think no one has a registry of who has been vaccinated and who has not?
You do understand that all the other vaccines to which you refer are fully FDA approved, right?
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Yes, I have personal knowledge of people in 3 states who received boosters upon request. I am glad you have such confidence in the California procedures and registry, other states chose not to ask for any ID to encourage greater compliance with actual vaccination. There are many, many ar risk people who Can not or will not supply ID, so that was a rational approach. I was never asked for insurance.
I know that nobody on this thread is calling into question any userâs motivation for posting, right. Or getting into a tiresome back-and-forth that is more appropriate for PMs?
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I would suspect VAX sites vary in their ability to check the other background and medical records of the people who present for shots. Sadly many of us have very fragmented medical records and especially immunization records.
My internist I started seeing a few years ago was trying to get my immunization records and both she and I had a hard time, even though I knew exactly where my shots had been administered and roughly the year.
Patients who belong to hmos and have been in them forever are more likely to be able to have more intact records, to the extent their care was always âin network.â
I work hard with my providers to try to keep my medical records and immunizations records up to date and intact.
I worry for our healthcare providers who got their immunizations 1st and are more likely to be around infected patients than many of us.
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My mom, H and I got our Pfizer covid shots through a medical center that is out of network. We did provide info about Medicare and my insurance so it was covered. We also provided info to our MDs, so our medical records reflect dates and batch of Pfizer shots we obtained.
If we hadnât taken those steps, I doubt the records would have had the information because the electronic medical records of our primary care and those of where we got the shots do not communicate with one another.
Supposedly our state has some sort of database about immunizations but I have no personal info on what it does and doesnât contain. Based on the difficulty I had getting my immunization data for my primary care md, Iâm not very confident that the data is easy to get, even by medical providers.
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If the vaccine prevents serious illness and death, itâs not âuselessâ no matter what the actual efficacy is. In March 2020 when people were being loaded up into refrigerated trucks in Italy and NYC, a promise of a vaccine that would turn COVID into a bad cold would have been viewed as a Godsend, not âuseless.â
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I am a physician. Received my first Pfizer dose in December, second in early January. Had my IgG Spike protein antibodies checked in early February. My titers were 1:1350, the max that we titer out to (yes, I am a laboratory physician). Had my antibodies check again in early May (before daughterâs graduation to make sure I felt comfortable in a large, albeit masked outdoor location), and it had dropped to 1:450. Had them checked again last Friday, am now at 1:150, which is two titers above no antibody detection. No one knows the level that would be considered insufficient for protection, but we believe 1:150 would be low level protection. I wouldnât want to go below that. I will therefore be looking to get my booster imminently. I was on a zoom meeting with hospital physicians and leadership and was told Pfizer just released data early last week saying they found marked drop off in antibody levels at 8 months post-vaccination. Sorry, as a scientist I strive to provide sources to support any statement but that was simply word-of-mouth so I cannot. But I can share my own personal data, which does support these findings.
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I sent a text message out to my lung doctor asking for guidance on a booster. Will share anything noteworthy that I receive in reply.
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You are not correct on that. There is no centralized database to check if someone has had a vaccine. If we had one in the US then we wouldnât have to carry a card around to prove we are vaccinated. As I stated up thread. My kid and her boyfriend just walked into a local pharmacy and got a booster. They didnât need a prescription from a doctor or had to pay for me. For the record, you do not need a prescription to get any vaccine.
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I got my Moderna shots at a medical clinic back in Feb. Without my permission they would not be able to tell anyone if I was vaccinated. It is considered to be PHI (personal health information) and information is protected.
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