Anyone have any input about Washington And Jefferson in PA?

Parents Forum
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<p>I know couples from all three schools and all are great folks. They all have in common that they met at college. </p>

<p>Look at the endowments of the three schools, make a spread sheet with the pluses and minuses and go over the merits and drawbacks of them with your student. Ultimately, in my opinion, its the student's choice. That's the way we ended up doing it here. Even if it does not work out, at least the student was able to make that choice. I have seen much more sorrow when things do not work out when the parents made the choice. I don't think there is such a huge difference among those three schools that really pushing one over the other two is a worthwhile battle. There will be so many other things that are.</p>

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<p>My sister went to W&J a zillion years ago.. (nahh, but I like to point out how much older she is than me any chance I can). Just yesterday, however, she told me that they have done an incredible job keeping up with their science program. She was a biology major who, instead of going to med school which she clearly had the grades for, became a great teacher and HS counselor (not college). Anyway.. she has mixed feelings about it but only because it was kind of small and it wasn't as open minded as perhaps she should have enjoyed.</p>

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<p>Northeastmom and robbia613, that 2006 article about a proposal to sell some items from Hartwick's art museum is pretty much a non-issue. The campus community quickly put the kabosh on the idea, and the article is not indicative of Hartwick's financial health.
My S goes to Hartwick and my D gave the Honors program serious consideration before making another choice. From my perspective it's a great school. The faculty is first-rate, there's an energetic new president, and the students I've met have been engaged and just plain nice.</p>

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<p>Hi Elsat - Glad to hear about the issue with Hartwick's sales' being a non-issue. I did see that they laid off staff in January (which schools haven't, might be more informative, though. It is a symptom of the times...)</p>

<p>But what made your S choose Hartwick? (My child has also been invited in to the Honors program, too. Any thoughts or observations?) </p>

<p>We've visited a number of times and it has everything kid wants - sciences, sports, travel, nice people. I even think Oneonta is charming. It just doesn't have the "rep". ("Same coule be said of W&J - except the town is not great).</p>

<p>We certainly know a lot of people who have done very well in their lives having gone to "no-name" schools (or no school at all), and people who have tanked who went to MIT or Harvard. But kid is the "one-and-done" and so we want to make sure that all advantages are available, if you know what I mean?</p>

<p>I was just curious as to why your S ended up choosing the school and your D didn't? </p>

<p>If you'd prefer to sent me email message please do. And thank you for your help!</p>

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<p>Elsat, thank you for the information. Very helpful. Anything that you could add would be informative. Have there been cutbacks on the campus at all?</p>

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<p>Robbia613 (to whom I sent a longer version as a PM) and northeastmom, as for layoffs, every college that I'm familiar with seems to be dealing with pretty much the same situation due to the economy. What a difference from last year, when my D was applying to schools! Hartwick doesn't seem to be any better or worse from what I can tell. Layoffs were support staff, not faculty.</p>

<p>As for why my S chose Hartwick and my D didn't, my D had several scholarship/aid offers from different schools and ended up choosing a women's college because of that elusive but instantly recognizable "fit" - it just felt right to her.</p>

<p>My S loves the sense of community at Hartwick and the opportunities to work directly with faculty that he might not find at a larger school. He finds the campus a comfortable size (he would never have been happy on a large university campus). </p>

<p>Hartwick's travel opportunities are truly amazing, both for January Term and semesters. They seem to know how to do those kind of programs well. When I've looked there have been plenty of science-oriented January Term trips as well as trips that make me more than a little envious like theater in England, language and history in France, and the always-popular Prague trips led by the choral director who is a Prague native. They also offer a bunch of urban internships and seem well connected, especially in NYC, Boston and Washington.</p>

<p>If your daughter is headed for grad school, the opportunity to work with faculty on original research is a huge plus. I've read about several faculty who take their students to professional conferences to present research.</p>

<p>As for retention, I'm guessing that the folks who don't come back are the ones who don't like the location (it's not in a big city, which is an advantage in my book but is not to everyone's taste), or don't like northeast winters (apparently that's true at my D's school too).</p>

<p>Things my D liked about Hartwick's Honors program were the chance to register first for classes, the honors-only sections offered in some courses, and the chance to live in an honors dorm if she wanted to, as well as graduating with an honors degree. My D has been closed out of some classes she wanted at her college this year because as a freshman she's at the bottom of the totem pole. An honors "head of the line" boost would have made a difference for her.</p>

<p>I hope this helps as your D makes her decision. I remember how fraught the whole process was for our kids and our whole family. If I have one recommendation, it would be for your D to participate in overnight visits at the schools that are her final choices.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>elsat, thank you for the reply.</p>

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<p>Hi robbia613 - just wondering if you made your decision yet on W & J. At this point, my son seems to be choosing it over his other choices because of its academic reputation. I’m worried about the down & out town, but it sounds like they are trying to improve with some revitilization. At any rate, we were planning to go on the Seniors overnight trip in April and now may have to go another weekend because a prom is getting in the way! But when my son did visit he liked it very much. He is ultimately interested in sprots management, The football is great and the school is small enough that he’ll know his professors. They have an excellent pre-law program and the head of the NFL is a graduate. Anyway, nice to see it’s at least discussed on the CC board! Are you in state?</p>

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<p>I’m currently an undergrad here majoring in Biochemistry. If anyone has a direct question about W&J, send me a private message.</p>

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<p>From what I have heard, W&J does a very good job placing premeds in med school. My son checked it out and talked extensively with a coach in his sport but decided the school was not for him because it was not strong enough in his areas of interest. Pretty campus and friendly students.</p>

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<p>robbia,</p>

<p>I am having precisely the same thoughts about W&J. </p>

<p>Pro
High quality faculty
Great leader Pres. Haring-Smith
New science building coming
close student/faculty ties
Jan term</p>

<p>Con
Heavily Greek - not my son’s scene
Not as friendly as other places
“Urban” suburban campus
I drove around while my son was having overnight and got a little shaky on the town.
The boys my son were staying with left him in the dorm by himself.</p>

<p>We are from the west and the feel just wasn’t there.</p>

<p>My S was waitlisted to Ursinus. If you have the chance I would go there.
It has an outstanding reputation among scientists (Merck).</p>

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<p>My son chose W&J. The decision was difficult, in that he received a lot of “flak” for choosing a less well known school when he was accepted at University of Virginia, West Point, Kenyon, and others. However, the fit and the feel was there for him at W&J, which has an excellent regional reputation. The fact that they were very generous with merit-based scholarship money also did not hurt.</p>

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<p>My daughter is considering this school, too, it’s high on her list. We live 30 miles away, in Pittsburgh. Yeah, Washington PA is a pit of a place, but talking to the college president last week (she’s new) there is an active new consortium between the college and town to make improvements that would benefit both. There is a weekend free van service for students to take them to Pittsburgh, to visit friends or whatever in the colleges in town and in Oakland. I think there is plenty to do. I was very impressed by the faculty and administration and current students I spoke to last week on a campus visit.
Some of the other schools my daughter loves are Kenyon, Oberlin and Denison. W and J gave her a ton more merit aid than those schools probably will.</p>

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<p>steelergirl and Benny07, did you go (or are you going) to one of the scholarship interview days? I heard that everybody who goes gets at least a couple thousand more.</p>

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<p>W&J’s pre-med program is superb. Some years the college places as much as 75 percent of its science graduates in professional or graduate programs. The college is working on improving its other academic programs so that W&J won’t be known as a primarily a school for pre-med.</p>

<p>Yes, Washington PA leaves a lot to be desired, but face it most colleges in small towns are in the same boat. One friend who graduated from another small town liberal arts school in Pennsylvania said that one advantage of such a school is that there are few places to get in trouble, and if there aint much to do, you can always study.</p>

<p>It should be noted that the campus is very pretty. Pennsylvania is lucky that so many of its colleges have pretty campuses.</p>

<p>If I knew then what I know now, I think that I would have ended up at W&J</p>

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<p>I am looking into W & J for my senior girl. Here are the things that worry me about the place: </p>

<p>(1) I have many friends in academia from all over the country and many on the east coast and even in eastern PA - none of them has ever heard of W&J. </p>

<p>(2) It seems to have a very good reputation for placing students in med. school, but I find most of that hype to be self-generated by their admissions department. I have looked extensively into their claims that 80 - 90% of students get into med school. It is just not true. </p>

<p>You can go online and look up their pre-health department newsletter. I downloaded a few PDF’s of them and was shocked by the number crunching. The newsletters broke down how many students from each graduating class got accepted at which specific medical related grad schools. The statistics that they showed encompassed ALL allied healthcare profession post-graduate programs including PT and OT and osteopathy. I have absolutely nothing against such professions or programs, but they are much easier to get into than medical school. When it came to medical school, for the year 2009 only eight W&J students were accepted into medical school. The most elite medical schools on the list were Temple and Penn State. Again, I am sure those schools have their merits and produce fine doctors but those schools were the top medical schools on the list, and one student got into them. So when they boast that they have a wonderful track record with getting students into medical school, I think they really mean allied healthcare programs, and the few that got into medical school were mostly tiny med schools in Erie PA and other places that are probably rather easy to get into, and med schools from which it would be pretty hard to land fellowships. </p>

<p>(3) I find it telling to look at the number of students who applied early decision at a school, as well as the number that accepted. According to collegeboard statistics, only 12 people applied early admission and only 4 accepted. That is a horrible ratio even given the small size of the school. </p>

<p>(4) Finally my other apprehension about W&J is the reputation it has for being a heavy drinking school. </p>

<p>I am sure there may be good reasons that others have for attending this school and I am of course happy to hear about them. I was just not too impressed.</p>