AP Calc v. college Calc?

My is a rising junior at a small, brand new charter high school based on the High Tech High model. They don’t offer AP courses, and probably won’t offer them in the future. Separately, my son is very mathematically advanced. Last fall, it became clear that his teachers could no longer “keep up”, so he began taking his math courses at the local community college instead. He’s finishing up what the college calls “Pre Calculus” right now. (It actually covers much of the same material as some high school Calculus courses.) Because he plans on going into a math-heavy field, he plans to continue to take Math until graduation, so he’ll probably end up with six years of math on his transcript.

Here’s my question. We’re deciding how to handle calculus for him in the fall. He’d just as soon continue taking the college courses, as he finds them more challenging and a better environment in general. However, his advisor and some other parents have made loud noises to me about how he’d be better off taking a distance learning AP Calculus course, because “that will look better on his college applications”.

Now, honestly, I can’t see how AP Calculus looks better than straight college credit. I mean, the original <em>point</em> of the AP courses was to allow students to get a headstart on getting college credit, by proving via exam that they had completed a high school equivalent to the college class. Doesn’t a college transcript serve the same purpose? Which has more value: a 5 on the AP exam, or an A (and professor recommendation) on a college transcript?

I know he can just go ahead and take the AP exam after taking his Calculus course, but isn’t the AP exam redundant at that point?

<p>An A counts more because some colleges don't even consider AP grades.
Taking AP would not be redudant if he goes to an out of state school because credits earned at community colleges do not transfer, AP does.</p>

<p>Although I have no clue why, I've heard from many different people that APs look better than college credits.</p>

<p>I would say the AP is more useful. Whether one or the other is better for getting into colleges would probably depend on the reputation of the high school and (community) college. Generally, the AP class is at least as good as a community college class. </p>

<p>AP Calculus BC is one of the most universally recognized AP exam. I've never seen any school not offer credit for it. On the other hand, not all colleges will accept credit transfers from other colleges, especially if there's a huge disparity in "presitge". Also, consider that taking college courses is usually more difficult for time schedules.</p>

<p>Oh, time isn't really an issue, he just takes evening classes. It's actually harder to schedule the AP stuff, because he'll have to do something online during particular times of the day, which the school will have to work around, since they only offer each class once each day. (That is, his grade's Humanities meets at only one time, his grade's Bio meets at only one time, etc.) If he's doing something during the school day, the <em>only</em> time he has available is when the rest of his class is working on Math. Evening classes offer a great deal more flexibility, oddly enough. </p>

<p>As far as transferring, the course is "UC/CSU certified", which means that it's equal to any credit offered by the University of California or CA State systems. Someone else mentioned they didn't think community college coursework transfered, but that's not my own experience at all -- I've transfered a lot of coursework between several different systems several times, and even the private colleges had no problem accepting the coursework, as long as it was a course they offered. (As an example, Stanford accepts UC/CSU credit, so my son's Psych 100 class is explicitly accepted for commensurate credit ate Stanford, even though it was at a UC community college. That's not out of state, but that's certainly acceptance at a highly selective school.</p>

<p>Correct me if I'm wrong, Its my understanding that there is no advantage to taking AP Calc BC over AP Calc AB because colleges only give credit for AB part (first semester calc 1) and not BC</p>

<p>I do think they give more credit (or only give credit) for BC. That's what I've seen from looking at Stanford/Yale/Cal's AP credit.</p>

<p>The one that I've heard is that the colleges would rather you take AP, if it is at a competitive high school, because its very likely that the community college class will be less competitive than an actual AP high school course. If your high school doesn't offer it, then I think its a completely different issue - and its totally great, because it shows academic initiative in taking classes you're interested in. Though if you could get it at a UC, it would be better.</p>

<p>I have done what your son has and taking the community college courses paid off more. The only point that the AP has over a community college course is the rigor. Beyond that everything is a plus for a CC class. A CC class is free, transferable, class schedule is flexible, and the exposure to adults, sometimes kids younger, is good. An AP would have you pay $82 for the test, sometimes attend after school sessions, and have to review more because most high school teachers are not as capable as college educators. Personally I would attend college classes at a CC than that of high school AP's. Also, universities such as Harvard require 5's only on the test. Therefore the passing score will not automatically grant you the credit just as what a CC class would do.</p>

<p>Well, the thing is, he's not going to have a traditional AP class, no matter what -- his AP option would be an online class via Stanford EPGY or a similar online self-paced program. He is one of three students in the school in a position to take Calculus. Last year they tried to do independent study with a teacher, but the teacher assigned didn't know/understand the math involved, so that was sort of hopeless. So we're choosing between a computer-based AP class, or a UC-credit college class. The AP class will cost about 800.00, not including the text or AP test, while the college class is free except for the text.</p>

<p>As far as a competitive school, it's a <em>new</em> school. It's 2 years old; my son will be one of the first students to graduate. Part of his application "hook" is that he moved here and chose to be a founding student at this school, so he's been one of the people shaping the school's curriculum. He's also had to have a "do it yourself" approach to many of his academics -- he studies Latin on his own, takes Math and other courses via evening college classes, etc. </p>

<p>If it helps, his "first choice" school is Stanford; he's not much interested in the traditional Ivys. So if you want to be specific, we're interested in how <em>Stanford</em> will react, more than anything else. Perhaps I should ask opinions over on that board, too.</p>

<p>IMHO, take the CC classes. its not worth spending 800 on an AP test prep course. Your son could probably self-study for the AB exam, and I'm sure he could find someone in the area (maybe a teacher from another local school) to help him with any questions he might have. Even a regular Calc 1 text book would prepare him for the AP (AB) test. Calc BC is considered Calc 1 and Calc 2 normally. </p>

<p>Also, after taking the CC courses, he should theoretically be able to take the AP test should he wish to. Instead of spending 800 on the prep classes, take the free CC courses and then spend 82.00 for the AP exam.</p>

<p>AP credits are more flexible. A five on an AP exam virtually guarantees credit at all participating institutions.</p>

<p>Now, an A at a community college or local state university is easily, and I mean easily, transferable to any public university within your state.</p>

<p>Personally, if your high school does not offer AP, then take the class at the college and then take the AP exam.</p>

<p>I'm not too big of a fan of "online classrooms." Why pay $800 when you can just pay $82?</p>

<p>Take the evening classes at community college. Then using a prep book just to make sure u cover all topics, take the AP exam. That way he can get credit either wya.</p>

<p>I say take the community college class and then consider taking the AP exam. The online class would be a LOT more expensive, less convenient, and might actually be less effective at teaching the material. My little sister ran into a similar problem at her middle school with geometry. She ended up taking an online class, and it was AWFUL. Really didn't do a good job teaching her or preparing her for the appropriate tests. So you might want to factor that into it also.</p>

<p>As for the issue of which "looks better"...I honestly don't think the difference between a community college class and an online class will be a factor in his application, especially not if he takes the AP test. (I'm going to Stanford next year -- so I'm not an expert on the admissions process or anything, but that's the feeling I get). But if you still aren't sure, call the admissions office -- the people there are very nice and very willing to answer any of your questions.</p>

<p>Both look good for admissions...
But he should take both AP exam and CLEP exam for placement... because community colleges may not transfer credits as well..</p>

<p>Take the community college class. It sounds like that would work better for his schedule, as well as cost much less. My older son is a senior at Stanford. Although he did take the Calculus AP class at the high school, he took a few other cc classes--Astronomy, Japanese, and Engineering, and all of the credits transferred to Stanford, no problem. And we are in Oregon, so it is a whole different cc system.</p>

<p>I think to Stanford the idea of him taking the trouble to pursue higher math is more important than the exact route he chooses to take.</p>