My S21 is planning to apply to engineering programs as of now. He goes to a small public HS that alternates offering AP Chem and AP Physics every other year. The reason is the same teacher teaches both classes (they are double period; yearlong) and there’s not enough demand (they say) to offer both each year.
Due to math pre-reqs my S can’t take AP Physics until senior year but alas it won’t be offered that year, but Honors Physics will be avail. So he could take either AP Chem as a Senior or Hon Physics.
His college list now includes NC State, VA Tech, GA Tech, maybe UMD. Others TBD.
So, Option A his HS science courses would look this:
Hon Bio
Hon Chem
Hon Physics
APES
Option B would be:
Hon Bio
Hon Chem
APES
AP Chem
He will also have AP Calc and 3 or 4 years of PLTW engineering classes (the first two general ones, plus prolly computer science and aerospace engineering). Total of 7 or 8 APs.
I imagine we could get the HS counselor to write in their letter that he would have taken AP Physics if it’d been available to him which might help with any concerns with just Honors Physics.
From an admissions perspective, which option do you think is better?
almost there - i am so not familiar with admissions, so can’t help you judge the strength of schedule. Hopefully others are.
But i have a kiddo looking at engineering at our midwest flagship; where they do not accept AP chem; he’s not taking it and taking other classes instead… I guess I’d encourage you to see what is required for those engineering majors at those colleges; and base choices from there. I’m sure that they’ll require physics; it might be helpful to have physics in HS before taking a college course. Unless you think one class or the other would give you admissions bump, I’d look into AP transfer credits and the Course Plans and see how your options best fit into those parameters.
@AlmostThere2018 If I were you, I’d look up the admissions counselor for my state at a few of these schools and and ask them the same question. So, for Georgia Tech, https://admission.gatech.edu/content/admission-counselors
See what they say. I have a feeling they’ll say he should take what interests him, that it doesn’t really matter, but maybe they’ll tell you something quite different, which is why I think you should ask. If it were my kid and I had no resources available to ask this question, I’d go with Physics. Good luck to you and your son!
You’re looking at it the wrong way. The question is really which should your S take for success in college. And the answer is physics. Going into college calc-based physics with no prior physics background is the kiss of death for an engineering student. The GC can(and should) explain the curriculum restrictions.
@evergreen5 – our state has an Earth Science graduation requirement so he has to take APES. So it will be:
Hon Bio
Hon Chem
APES
AP Chem or Hon Physics
I suppose it’s possible he could take both AP Chem and Hon Physics if he gave up his PLTW class as a 12th grader, but he loves those classes and I don’t think would want to. For the record, he’s doing well in his Hon Chem this year but doesn’t like it – but I think this is substantially due to the teacher.
Especially if he enters a school with a first year engineering program with high GPA or competitive admission to declare an engineering major later (e.g. NCSU, Purdue, Texas A&M, Minnesota, Penn State, Ohio State, VT) or with high GPA progression requirements (e.g. Wisconsin). Struggling in physics in college due to lack of high school physics could keep him out of his desired engineering major in that case.
@VickiSoCal – it’s AP Physics 1&2. The pre-req is Math 3 (we have a spiraled, CC curriculum here and I think it’s mostly Trig with some stats and other stuff thrown in?). He’s taking Hon. Math3/Pre-calc math class next year. (He didn’t do well on a single 5th grade (!!) math test which meant in he wasn’t on the accelerated pathway in middle school so now here we are. … He now has consistent 98/99 in math).
Taking earth science in the summer won’t help with access to AP Physics. There is a summer option for Math 3; however, he’d have to give up being a counselor at his sleep away camp which is very important to him and I wouldn’t recommend.
I do wonder if we could lobby for an exception for the pre-req (he’d be taking the math 3 as a co-req) so he could take AP Physics next year when it’s offered? But that might not be wise – AP Physics is known as the most difficult class in our HS – harder than Calc BC.
Algebra 2 Trig is the coreq for AP Physics 1 here. It is the only AP physics offered and is taught as a one year class. My kid Fonda it mind numbingly slow. Now, as a one semester it should be harder but not harder than Calc BC.
@VickiSoCal – Interesting. It’s AP Physics 1 & 2 here – double period, year long and can’t take just one semester. The teacher is very good but it’s very hard.
If he could get permission he’d be taking:
Semester 1: Hon Math 3 and AP Physics 1
Semester 2: Pre-Calc and AP Physics 2
These are the topics of Hon Math 3 – but I think it’s deceiving b/c he’s doing a lot of these same topics this year in Hon Math 2. They ‘go deeper’ I guess in Math 3.
Math III - Unit 1 Geometry and Proofs
Math III - Unit 2 Circles
Math III - Unit 3 Trigonometry
Math III - Unit 4 Modeling with Functions
Math III - Unit 5 Quadratics
Math III - Unit 6 Polynomials
Math III - Unit 7 Rational and Radical Functions
Math III - Unit 8 Exponential and Logarithms
Math III - Unit 9 Statistics
I think taking the math concurrently so that he doesn’t miss out on the physics class sounds like the best plan. Ask the physics teacher about particular math content that he could self-study over the summer - Khan Academy probably covers the territory well - or work with a tutor, to make sure he’s prepared. This would have the dual benefit of putting him ahead on the Math III material so he can put more effort into Physics. (Math III is essentially precalc, right? He’d be taking Calc BC senior year?)
The double AP class in physics sounds tough, but if engineering is what he wants in college, it’s probably the best possible investment in that desired future. It will both prove his mettle, admissions-wise, and lay a solid foundation for first-year engineering, preparation-wise.
@aquapt – tks for this advice. He’d have to get permission to do it as co-req, esp. since they do have a Math 3 summer option. Not sure how strict the policy is, but I think he’d love this solution and you’re right. He’s gotten a lot of applied math and physics in his first two years of PLTW so I do think he’d be fine…
It sounds like no one is voting for AP Chem and he should either take the Honors or AP Physics…so this is really helpful to me!
my recommendation would be to take the honors physics. The reason is he shouldn’t really want the college credit for Chem!! You can look at schools he is considering to see what credit they give, but I know the UC schools give 1 or 2 quarters of credit. With a requirement for a year ( or more) of college chem required for engineering he will end up having to take an additional quarter+ in college.
This introduces two problems. First, he will be off-quarter; most frosh will be starting chem 1A but he will need chem 1C which will have fewer choices of when to take it so it complicates setting up his schedule. If he waits to take it until his 3rd quarter he will be taking it with kids fresh off the previous classes while he will have been away a year.
Second, all the other kids taking it (assuming he is off-quarter) will also be the extra smart kids with AP credit. Many college classes are curved, so my preference would be to take it with the general college population that includes many premed and engineering and others who will decide sciences aren’t for them, rather than the top kids in the college.
Actually, chemistry requirements for
engineering majors vary by both major and school. Obviously, chemical engineering has more chemistry requirements. But some engineering majors at some schools require only a semester, or even not at all (though it may fulfill an option science requirement).
So AP chemistry may, in some cases, get out of a chemistry or option science requirement completely. But it is unlikely to be worth losing physics preparation in high school for that.
So the Math 3 that’s offered in the summer is just a semester course, or it’s a year’s worth of Math 3 + precalc?
Would taking the summer math be an option? And if he did, what would the math sequence afterward look like?
Traditionally Math 3 is a semester course if block; yearlong if one period. Precalc is same way.
The state’s public virtual high school has an online, accelerated version of just Math 3 over 8 weeks in the summer but he’s pretty sure he’ll be working at a sleep away camp for 3 weeks during that time. It’s a huge part of his life and I can’t see him giving up camp.
He has the whole month of August open, however, so if there were an even more accelerated option at that time it’d work. I’ll look into that.
If he got Math 3 under his belt in the summer, he’d take one period yearlong Pre-calc next year and could take AP Physics at same time b/c Math3 is the pre-req, not Pre-calc.