<p>When my oldest son started high school (large, high achieving public), my husband and I attended a new parents' meeting. The principal and the counselors who spoke were very clear on their positions with respect to AP classes: DO NOT sign up for every AP available to you, only take those in subjects that you like/are interested in. They quite literally scoffed at those students who sign up for every AP and relayed stories about the ridiculousness of some kids who had "all AP classes" in their senior year. They advised us not to be "those parents" who force their kids to take a bunch of APs. They said, it's best to let them have some "down time" and the chance to be "just kids."</p>
<p>Fast forward to today - the last one has finished all of his college applications - and I think back to the advice given to us all those years ago. I was not one of "those parents" who advised my kids to load up on APs - in fact, I actively discouraged them from doing so -- and now I'm not sure this was a good idea. My kids were very strong students with straight As in a mix of AP/honors/regular classes based on what they felt like taking. They had rigorous schedules, albeit not the MOST rigorous schedules they could have had.</p>
<p>However, we are finding out that there are many colleges who will penalize an applicant for not attempting to take the most rigorous classes available, which at my kids' school would mean taking a full load of AP courses sophomore, junior and senior years. </p>
<p>I'm pretty sure my kids could have handled the extra rigor, and yet I actually discouraged them from doing so, preferring that they had that "down time." Play sports. Volunteer. Explore. Hang out with friends. And, yes, even watch TV and play video games! Sleep late!</p>
<p>What do you think? Could it be that if I went to a new parents' meeting at our school today, the advice would be different? Have things really changed, is the competition that much fiercer - or were the school representatives just plain wrong to give that advice to new parents?</p>
<p>Schools will tell you what is in their best interest, not the best interest of the students. There are a few main reasons that kids at public schools load up on a ridiculous amount of AP classes: 1) as you discovered, colleges will look at whether the student took the most rigorous curriculum at their school; 2) most high schools with lots of AP courses weight the GPA, and even if they don’t, most colleges will weight the GPA for AP courses; 3) some students are after valedictorian status which needs the weighted GPA, or they are after being in the top 5% of their class to go after academic scholarships and/or honors colleges that require that ranking; 4) a student can bypass an entire year’s worth of classes when they start college, saving tuition money and/or avoiding the intro classes with hundreds of students in them; 5) many students prefer the peer group in the AP courses and being with the top students at their school, and they will not be in classes with these students otherwise; and 6) some students would be bored out of their minds in lower level classes. </p>
<p>I firmly believe that one reason some parents choose a private school for their child is because they know their child could not (or would not want to) handle five or so AP classes at once, and at a typical private school – including the top ones in Atlanta – the AP classes are limited to about six total over the entire four years of high school. It seems unfair to the public school students to have to be so stressed out maxing out on AP courses if they aim for a top 5% ranking at their school, or if they want to be in classes with the top students at their school. However, I know other parents/students who intentionally choose public over private because they think that even with taking all those AP classes, it will be easier to stand out as a top student there than at the privates, and their goal is to rank high, and either get an academic scholarship somewhere or admission to Ivies and other top universities.</p>
<p>I think your high school probably had their own concerns in mind, such as not wanting kids in AP classes who would not make a 3 or higher on the AP exam and bring down the school’s percent success rate on AP exams, or having so many sign up for an AP class that they would have to assign another teacher to teach the course, which requires special training of the teacher, etc. </p>
<p>mommyrocks, I fear you are exactly right. I regret not advising my kids to take more APs. They certainly took plenty, but not all available. It would have been advantageous for all of the reasons you stated in your first paragraph, not the least of which is college credit for passed exams. I do now think that the school preferred to “ration” the AP courses, which is not necessarily in the best interests of the students.</p>
<p>It depends on what you mean by “every AP”. There are plenty of what we call AP-lite courses that don’t really count for much. At the same time, there’s no evidence that taking 6 APs both junior and senior year does much to gain you admission anywhere, even HYPSM.</p>
<p>You almost certainly have to take more than just the APs that interest you - I’ve seen plenty of students that dodge all the tough ones and are less than happy with the schools they are accepted to. AP Enviro does not substitute for the core science APs, AP Psych doesn’t substitute for APUSH or AP Gov, and AP CompSci doesn’t substitute for either of the AP Calcs. Those other APs are fine taken in addition to the cores, but they don’t replace them, except on the margins for some students who better take additional tough APs. Example, you’re not math oriented, so you take AP Stat but you take both AP Lang and AP Lit.</p>
<p>So what’s a good balance? The general thinking here is 6-8 APs spread across sophomore to senior year. (All this depends on what your school offers. We’ll assume a full plate of options, if less, YMMV.) So that’s 1-2 sophomore year, 3-4 both junior and senior year. And you should hit most of these cores - AP World or Euro, AP US or Gov, AP Calc (or Stat in some cases), AP Lang, and least one of AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics C (or possibly Physics 1). That’s five right there, and going to 10 is possible without going crazy. Not necessary perhaps, but going the extra mile in APs can make up a bit if you have someone who’s not a great SAT/ACT test taker.</p>
<p>I’ve read somewhere that more than 6 or so APs doesn’t mean much to colleges. YMMV.</p>
<p>That said, my kids took AP courses for various reasons. My son took only the ones he was interested in. My D took some because the teacher was really good, some because she didn’t like the subject and wanted to skip it in college, and some because she loved the subject or wanted to be able to jump ahead in college. </p>
<p>OHMomof2, that is somewhat the approach my kids took. They did not purposely seek out “x” many AP courses just to look good to colleges, and in fairness it seems to have worked out just fine for them. However, it seems disingenuous for the high school administrators to actively discourage kids from taking APs, when we all now know that colleges will and do look to the rigor of a student’s courses when making decisions.</p>
<p>There is nothing you can do about it now, so don’t worry about it. There is something to be said for enjoying your high school years and not being bogged down by test after test after test. My cousin was one of those who took lots of AP’s back in the 80s when a lot of people had not even heard of them. She got in Stanford and went to Berkely, going in as a sophomore! She went to Harvard for grad school. So it worked for her. However, to this day, she says taking all those AP’s was the worst thing she ever did. She sees it as she missed out on taking some really great introductory classes–and an AP is NOT the same as a college class, with the college level discussion, led by a college professor, that just happens at a different level when you are in a peer group that is a little older and wiser than high school juniors and seniors. I think she has a point too. Moderation in all things.</p>
<p>As a high school junior who is taking an almost full load of AP classes (5 out of 6), it’s extremely difficult to get good grades and still have a social life. While I have straight A’s at the moment, I’ve pretty much given up on my social life - the only thing that I did socially during the fall semester was Halloween - but that’s okay because <em>I</em> decided to do it. I have to agree with your child’s school counselors that it’s not okay for parents to push for their kids to take extra AP classes. Allow them to take what they see fit. </p>
<p>Another thing that you have to consider (and I’m sure will be a challenge for me) is the AP exams. If your children get good grades but don’t do so well on the AP exam, it’s kinda makes it worthless IMO. It is one thing to get good grades throughout the year and another to get 4s or 5s on your AP exam. You need the time to study each AP class and that is difficult when your taking different exams all around the same time. </p>
<p>@mommyrocks nailed it, hitting 6 of the 7 most common reasons a lot of kids load up on APs. The only other one that comes to mind is 7) a lot of kids are undecided about what they’ll study in college and want to be as prepared as possible for any course of study.</p>
<p>My kids took a ton of APs: both were National and State AP Scholars. Their primary reasons were mommyrocks’ #5 and 6, and my #7. Their friends were all on the AP track and they didn’t want to be stuck in classes with “slackers and stoners”.</p>
<p>If a kid on a path to a rigorous college is unsure if she’s going to major in classics, physics or philosophy, it’s good to have a solid background in US, European, and Art History, as well as all the hard sciences.</p>
<p>I also agree with @MrMom62 that padding the AP count with AP “lites” in place of solids is pointless.</p>
<p>I’ll add another reason: 8) often you find the best teachers in AP classes, especially in a large public HS such as my D’s. It sort of segways with #6 (students avoiding boredom seek out the best teachers) but I wanted to give a shout out to the teachers that <em>typically</em> teach AP classes. They are the cream of the crop.</p>
<p>All good reasons for encouraging kids to take as many APs as possible, rather than discouraging them…and also explains why some schools apparently discourage students from doing so (the cost of providing these “better” courses).</p>
<p>Taking all AP classes is great for making friends with some of the smartest people in your class that encourage you to do your best but as a senior with 5 APs I’m really regretting taking all of these classes because I find myself with little time for college essays and enjoying my senior year, let alone applying for scholarships and maintaining ECs. Taking a full load junior year is fine (still minimal social life) but for seniors it’s very difficult to keep up with college apps, especially if you’re like me and have no idea where you want to go. Just a tip for any juniors out there thinking about their schedules next year!</p>