Hello CCers, as I’m sure you all know, anyone who gets a minimum score of 4 on all their ap exams, for 8 or more AP exams gets the national AP Scholar award. Other than that, I have heard that there is limited use of AP scores in admission decisions of Ivy Leagues and New Ivies. With that being said, I have heard that many of these colleges use something called an “Academic Index” to get a measure of a candidate. Now while I am COMPLETELY aware that there are many more important factors in deciding admissions (ECS, race, personal circumstances, essays…etc), this measure surprised me. I used CC’s Academic Index calculator and I saw the SATI and grades as I expected, but what I didn’t expect were the subject tests. Now while I knew that subject tests were required or recommended to apply to top tier colleges, I have no idea how much they were weighted ( a lot more than I thought, seeing as how they were included in the AI). Now that I am nearing my junior year, I still have to take 5 ap exams to get national ap scholar. The problem is I don’t have ANY subject test scores. If I were to drop two of the exams I am self-studying, I think I could prepare pretty well and do well on my subject tests in June.
I know this has been a long post but my main questions is, What would matter more with college admissions at a top university? getting national AP scholar or getting two really good SAT subject test scores (700+ math II and hopefully 800 History)?
@Ahmeda14960 IMO, I think AP Nat, but not for the reason you may think… Getting the AP Nat Scholar with real APs (not AP human geo, etc.) and with a good gpa shows course rigor over several years. That is more impressive than a 700 Math II and an 800 History. Also, why can’t you do both? E.g. Take the SAT II of your best AP science class.
The holistic process is not necessarily using an academic index but AI is primarily used to admit athletes while ensuring they are academically qualified.
However, subject tests should never be surprise since 4 out of Ivy schools had them as required until 2 years ago and all 8 required them if one took SAT1. 4 of them waived them if submitting only ACT with writing.
@psywar I should mention that I am taking World, English Language, Macroeconomics, Microeconomics, and 9sadly) human geography. my only other option for an AP test is physics, which I am 1000% sure I will not get a 4 or even a 3 in. with that in mind, do you think that I should still go for National Scholar?
@psywar I have to take my subject tests by either June or October as I am trying to apply for the Questbridge college match. I know that I can study well enough in two or three weeks to get an 800 in U.S. History, but for Math II I’m not sure. I’m applying to MIT so I need a science (Biology E) and a math (Math II). I am thinking of taking math 2 for the practice but that’s probably a horrible idea, because I think it will just be a waste of money if I’m not well prepared. I know I’m going to need a good amount of work to relearn my AP Bio knowledge from my sophomore year, so I’m not taking Biology until October.
The designations related to AP Scholar are marketing tools for the College Board and how sickening is that? It is a way to rope students into taking more and more AP classes. The courses are not better than courses developed and implemented by your school district. It’s all about marketing and money.
Most kids who get NS only find out at the end of Senior year when it’s too late to put on applications. Many schools don’t allow kids to take AP classes before Junior year (generally with Honors prerequisites). They may care about the rigor that made National Scholar possible, but nothing else. Many adcoms state that they do not consider AP scores in admissions, which would imply that they wouldn’t consider NS either.
@higheredrocks that is NEWS to me. If colleges don’t care about the AP exams, why do people bother taking them? i don’t know where you guys go to school, but in my county the classes are much easier to get A’s in than to get a 5 in the exam.
I’m sure that some do look at the AP scores when they are submitted, but it’s often not an official part of the rubric. For example, look at the class profiles published by universities – only some mention an average number of APs (not scores, just courses taken) and even fewer mention AP scholars among their new freshmen class. They all list ranges of GPAs and test scores. FWIW, some high schools are the opposite – hard to get an A in the AP course, but you can show your proficiency by getting a 5.
Most schools use APs once you are admitted to determine placement (e.g., get you out of the cutthroat freshman chemistry class, boring intro courses, foreign language requirement) and to give college credit (saving money or giving you a lighter schedule). That was the original purpose of AP tests and remains the only purpose at many schools. That’s why you can’t substitute AP scores for SAT II subject tests at those colleges that require them (although I would think you should be able to – but no one does).
OK, so what I have gotten out of this discussion is that I should focus more so on SAT II because I National Scholar doesn’t matter that much if you don’t take serious AP classes, which will not be the case for me fully as I will be self-studying human geography and microeconomics. Anyone else?
SAT IIs on the other hand have been a required part of an application to Ivies for decades.
An honor never trumps a requirement. You have to meet your requirements first and an honor might have some impact as part of a holistic application process review.