Daughter is in the process of making out her junior year schedule and is not sure about her physics sequence. She will probably take AP Bio as a junior and one more science class (she wants to focus on STEM). Our high school offers a dual enrollment (DE) physics class, in conjunction with the local community college, that covers introductory physics (PHYS-201 & 202 at the college), i.e., Mechanics and Electricity & Magnetism. This class, as do all DE classes, adds one point to her grade. Also, this DE Physics class is taught by a PhD who is regarded as a great teacher.
The other option is take academic physics as a junior (a required pre-requisite for AP Physics, not an honors class, no bump in grade) and then AP Physics C as a senior (with a one point bump in grade). AP Physics C only covers mechanics, but at probably greater depthe than the DE class. She also wants to take AP Chem as a senior, as well as AP Statistics or AP Cacl BC.
How are dual enrollment classes viewed by colleges? Are they on par, or even more highly regarded, than AP classes? Less regarded? If she takes the DE class, she will most likely be done with physics in high school, so she can focus on AP Calc or Stats and AP Chem as a senior.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
It depends.
AP classes are generally a known commodity as the syllabus is standardized; DE classes can be hit-or-miss. Also there are several physics sequences in college, even if they all cover mechanics and E&M. There’s physics for pre-med/bio majors/other non-STEM majors which is algebra-based(similar to AP Physics 1&2). Then there is calc-based physics (similar to AP Physics C). And rhen there may be a higher-level honors type calc-based physics sequence.
Regardless, if the DE class is calc-based, she should not bypass the HS intro course. Almost every other kid in the class will have had exposure to physics and the class is fast-paced. Also, college calc-based physics classes usually (but not always) require Calc 1&2 (or AP Calc BC) as a prereq, and MVC concurrently, where AP Physics C ususaaly only requires some type of calc class concurrently. Having taken both AP Physics C and then repeating in college, as the college does not allow AP credit for the major, I will tell you that E&M was the hardest course I had in HS and was also a time suck in college…
At the end of the day, she should choose what is right for her, and her future interests, not what colleges will like better. IMO, AOs won’t care either way…
As skieurope said, it depends. I think it varies by college. Cornell will accept 5’s on AP Physics for credit but gives no credit to DE courses taught in high school classrooms. If that kind of information effects your decision. Of course, just because a college has a policy, doesn’t mean the policy will still exist when your daughter is applying/gets there.
She could take the DE course and then take the Physics C AP exams if she wanted to cover her bases (although that could be pricey if you have to pay for both)
Good point. And Cornell is not unique. Many top private colleges give no credit for DE courses, although as @mom2twogirls said, one could always take the AP exam to cover all bases. And note that AP Physics C is 2 exams with two payments.
Isn’t AP Physics C also one semester of Mechanics and one semester of E&M? It was at my DD’s HS.
Our experience was that AP courses were more widely accepted for college credit than DE. Both though were very school specific.
My daughter would also agree with @skieurope that AP Physics C, specific E&M, was the hardest class she took in HS. She would also add that it was the most valuable. Her first year engineering physics and design course has been much more manageable because of AP Physics.
If the AP Physics C class is a one-year Mechanics class, I would opt for the DE classes. A normal college level Physics mechanics class is one semester. However, if she hasn’t taken Calc yet, I would wait until the year she takes Calc. At minimum she should be taking Calc concurrently with college level Physics.
Just to clarify the dual enrollment class will be taught at the high school with all high school students? That set up is not viewed by several schools as favorable as a dual enrollment class taught on a college campus with college students even if it is taught by a great professor.
I found if it is a regular college class dual enrollment was viewed as the same level as AP/IB for admissions (providing they aren’t fluff classes or developmental classes) for a majority of colleges though perhaps not by the more highly selective/ivy. In terms of utilizing the classes as credits that varies quite a bit and you would need to look at an colleges individually.
Here is an example from Boston University:
High School/Dual Enrollment
Coursework completed under a high school/dual enrollment program is subject to the following rules:
Any college courses used to fulfill high school graduation requirements are not eligible for credit at Boston University.
The college or university where the coursework was done must be a fully accredited institution.
The course must correspond to a course offered by Boston University, or be deemed equivalent in rigor.
A grade of C or better must have been earned.
The course must be part of the normal curriculum published in the college’s Bulletin.
The course must be open to enrollment by, and graded in direct competition with, regularly matriculated undergraduates at that institution.
In order to seek credit for college-level work completed prior to matriculation (pre-college credit) into an undergraduate program, students must:
Request that the external college or university send an official college or university transcript and course syllabus to the University Registrar for transfer credit evaluation.
The high school sponsoring the dual enrollment must certify that the course(s) under consideration for transfer credit did not fulfill high school degree requirements.
The transfer of credit will be determined per the policy on Transfer of Undergraduate Credit from US Institutions
That’s common, but not unique. Many high schools offer as a 2-year sequence,or just offer mechanics as a year-long course. The College Board does not dictate who the course needs to be structured, only what needs to be covered,
@momofsenior1: The AP Physics C syllabus in our HS specifies Mechanics only, not E&M. Calculus (it doesn’t specify which flavor) is a corequisite. The prerequisite is a basic physics course (which she would have to take Junior year). Either way, she plans to take AP Calc AB as a junior, regardless of which physics she chooses.
@mom2twogirls : The DE Physics class is taught at the HS. The syllabus is the same as for the college course and I don’t know if college students are in the class with the HS students. Probably not.
Also, the DE Physics teacher teaches the AP Physics class, as well. She would get the same teacher, either way.
Finally, I don’t think she’s looking to earn college credit as much as she would like a solid foundation when she enters college (she will probably not be a physics major, more likely chemistry or biochem).
Thanks for the feedback.
Just to clarify, the DE physics course that covers both mech and E&M, doesn’t require the intro course?
@momofsenior1: That’s correct, which leads me to believe th DE class has more breadth than depth.
Is the DE course for biology majors and pre-meds (no calculus or light calculus) or for physics and engineering majors (often requires multivariable calculus as corequisite for E&M)?
Will she be pre-med? If so, any college course and its grade will need to be included in medical school applications. It may also be disadvantageous on a medical school application if she ends up with physics credit (either college credit or AP) that she repeats later, since it will look like grade grubbing to medical schools.
Not having a a previous pre-req seems to suggest it isn’t as rigorous as the AP course. Personally I would go with the AP course. It will prepare her better for college.
I would agree with AP over a college class taught in the high school as better preparation for college
@ucbalumnus makes an excellent point: the DE grade might go with her into undergraduate school. It also goes on grad school applications. If she doesn’t do as well as she hopes to in the class, it will hurt beyond high school. At least she can leave high school grades behind.
If the DE class is based at a local community college, doesn’t have a pre-requisite of 1 year of intro physics, and doesn’t require Calculus, then I suspect it would looked at as a “science for liberal arts majors” at a college, not a substitute for a STEM 1st year College Physics.
Fwiw, my daughter’s DE class was through Pitt and it was the same as the AP class - you could take 3 extra exams to get Pitt credit, or the AP test, or both. It was “Physics for Science and Engineering 1”, the same as 1st years take. And the DE class still wasn’t enough to place out of 1st year Physics at Purdue Engineering.
Can she take DE Physics and then AP Physics? It sounds more like an Honors Intro Physics class. My younger daughter is in the same boat - she’s taking a DE Chemistry class that gets credit at the local community college, but it’s a pre-requisite for AP Chem. Our school just expanded the program with the local college and renamed Honors Chem as CHS (College in High School) Chem.
@RichInPitt: This is something we’re looking into. Right now, DE seems to be something she can handle as a junior and, if Physics turns out to be her jam, maybe take AP Physics as a senior.