<p>AP Tests and college placements are a joke. </p>
<p>First off, scoring a 5 on AP Tests is not so difficult. A 5 generally lies somewhere between 60-70%, out of the 100 point scale. In school, that is a D or even an F depending on the grading scale. In addition, the material is probably not as thorough in breadth or depth, compared to the material in college. </p>
<p>Second, I don't like how it all just boils down to one test, especially for juniors who do not have another opportunity to present scores before submitting their application ... is one test really a good reflection of a student's ability or comprehension of the material? Does one test really reflect the entire year's learning? Those who took the AP Chemistry this year would know, that the exam was unusually easy. Heck, the exam did not even have the traditional grade-killing Acid and Base or Precipitation question in its FRQ. I am baffled that colleges would let students skip an entire semester or year of coursework based on such exam. </p>
<p>Now, I know AP tests are important to many students, for earning college credits may save a lot of time and money. In this thread, I am merely questioning the validity of AP Tests. Perhaps the standards should be higher (~80% for a 5) or the material tested should be more in-depth. </p>
<p>Please, I want to hear your opinions. </p>
<p>[Sorry for re-posting the same thread from the AP discussion]</p>
<p>I don't agree with you that the chem test was particularly easy this year. I find acid/base to be much less challenging than what was actually on the test. The MC was fair but the FR was difficult in my opinion. I scored 5s on practice tests, and got a 4. I wish you wouldn't generalize by saying this years test was easy. </p>
<p>I agree with you that one test is not the best indicator of a student's knowledge, but that is the system that is set up. I can't think of another way the AP program could work. AP credit can be great of saving money, graduating sooner, fulfilling requirements not related to one's major, etc, for students who want to use it. I think it is dangerous to take that credit if you are not very, very confident in your skills in the subject. In some cases it may be beneficial to take entry level courses depending on circumstances such as how well you learned the material originally, the time since you studied it, the level of difficulty of the subject/course at the particular college. I know that, depending on which college I attend, I will most likely only use a few of my AP credits.</p>
<p>APs suck, really. Every test I took I got a 5, I got a 5 fresh year, I got a 5 soph year, and I got 3 fives this year. If people are stupid enough that only 10 % get 70% of the questions right, than we have a serious problem. My ap classes are easy, I just cant keep up with all the dang busy work my teachers give us to dominate us. Seriously, I am ready for college, and I just want to skip sr year to begin at state flagship. This year, I didnt even study for my aps, USH, Chem, and Stats, all 5s.</p>
<p>The concept of one test determining everything is used in college, where one test can be 20% of the final class grade. Does acing a final in college really mean that you know everything taught in that class over the semester? or did you know what to study and what would be on the test, and prepared that material? The AP exams themselves are college-level (but not necessarily the classes that led to them).</p>
<p>If the exams aren't at a high enough level to suit itself, a college just won't grant credit for it. Like with the Human Geography exam - how many colleges actually grant credit for it? The Ivys rarely grant credit for anything below a 5, and even then, it could just be elective credit. If students that skipped a year ahead due to AP credit suddenly started failing in droves, then maybe the sysem would be seen as failing. </p>
<p>Think of the CPA exam, where it costs over a thousand dollars to take the test, and if you fail, you have to take it (and pay) again. That is truely a high-stakes situation.</p>
<p>Many college classes are graded on a curve. Who says that a raw score of 60% might not be an A after a curve is implemented? or that a 80% might be failing if a curve is very tough?</p>
<p>APs are used to replace introductory college courses. Is any intro course meant to be truely in-depth?</p>
<p>I am (obviously :) ) a strong supporter of the AP program. </p>
<p>AP exams = joke? not really. AP classes = joke? possibly. </p>
<p>it seems the common assumption is that everyone scores a 5 on the AP exams. whereas really most kids score a 3 or less. if the smallest percentage of kids score a 5 then why should the passing % out of 100 be raised? it shouldn't. </p>
<p>finally, tomh could you be any more arrogant? and are you really going to a state flagship school because it doesn't look like from all your threads in the Cornell forum. good luck man and congratulations on all your 5s.</p>
<p>In one month I studied for 3 AP exams, two of the subjects (U.S. history and U.S. government and politics) I did not even take the class and the other exam (European History) I was in the class but we had only gotten about half way through all the material on the test. I did quite well on all 3 which does make me question the validity of the test in a way. Although I studied a lot and I was devoted to doing well, it does make me question how valid AP classes/tests are because I learned the material in a month! I was not that familiar with U.S. politics but I decided to take it anyway because it seemed like the easiest material to master, and I got a 4 on the exam.</p>
<p>^Tom Hirschfeld: the reason only 10% of students score a 5 is because that's the way the graders want it to be. They don't use a pre-set scale to grade the tests. Rather, you're grade is relative to how well everyone else did. The graders make sure that the top scorers (no matter how poor the score) always get a 5. So if in one year, the highest someone scored on WHAP was 30%, that score would be a 5. However, if in another year, the highest someone scored was 80%, that score would be a 5 and anyone who got around 30% would probably get a 2 even though that same percentage the previous year would have earned that person a 5.</p>
<p>Reversepsych: Sorry, I should have taken into account that difficulty is subjective. But still giving credit based on a test that entirely omitted the Acid/Base FRQ, which is such an integral part of chem, seems fishy, don't you think?</p>
<p>Book_worm and AKittka: Very good point on the curve and how even in college, it could boil down to one test. But the AP exams' curves are based on performances of highschool students, not that of college students. Students mature a lot over a year or two and the college curve is probably more competitive. </p>
<p>Also...once again I introduce an anecdotal example, but people around me who skip college courses usually seem to struggle, especially if they enter on a sophomore standing. </p>
<p>*I have a suggestion. How about, reporting a 200-800 scale, percentages, or even Z-Scores, instead of dividing the scores from 1-5? Just 5 scores do not do a great job distinguishing those who scored a 5 by getting 80% and those who scored a 5 by scoring 65%. * </p>
<p>I also wish the AP scores are given more weight in the college admissions process. But then and again, the whole socioeconomic and parental education level problem would resurface...</p>
<p>^that would be a good idea if AP scores were used for admissions. they aren't.. explicitly at least.. so the 1-5 range is given to show how qualified a student is. the AP exams are supposed to be used for college credit not admissions. however, i too wish ap exams grades would be used for admissions, but that would just raise too many problems.</p>
<p>I know how AP tests work, im just venting because i want some challenge, and my school offers all every AP, which I guess is nice, but because of that, my GC wont grant me dual credit for a college class I am taking next year at local 4yr. She says our curriculum is expansive enough so I shouldnt have to go off campus to learn. About the tests, in the apush test specifically a test that has 10 questions on literature, but 2 questions on politics is stupid. I also hate paying 500$ to take 5 tests. Why cant they just make us/comp politics and ap phys c mech/em each 1 test, or atleast if you pay for one, get the other free. </p>
<p>Yea Im going to ed at cornell, but if not, then Im loadin up on ap credits at public uni. to start as a soph.</p>
<p>I also agree with changing scoring so that at schools where only fives are granted, or no credit is granted because the test may not test enough material, how about expanding the difficulty of the test, and then putting on a wider scale so colleges can really pick and choose which scores to give credit to, and a perfect score will the really really outstanding</p>
<p>Difficulty definitely is relative. For me, AP classes aren't really all that challenging other than the sheer volume of work, but for most of the other students I know at my school, they're considered extremely difficult to master, and 5s are definitely in the minority. The teachers are really great and teach the material as best they can, and for the most part the students certainly try, but the reality seems to be that a student with average intelligence will struggle to master the sheer quantity of material expected to be recalled for one test. </p>
<p>As for how comparable the material is to an actual college class, while I personally have no experience with this myself, I know that my school is granting me credit for a more advanced course in biology than what I am required to take for getting a 5 on the exam. The AP class is considered to be more difficult than the introductory biology that is offered. I also know that my boyfriend, who is in college, borrowed my APUSH notes when he was concurrently taking it at college, because my notes were actually more thorough than his teacher's lectures. </p>
<p>I'm pretty sure that the expectation of this sudden burst in intellectualism at all but the nation's most elite universities is an unrealistic expectation. As far as I've heard from friends and siblings, there really isn't much more of an intellectual rapport, and the only real differences are lecture-style classes and the fact that your professors really don't care about you.</p>
<p>^ it is but it is largely used to determine the difficulty of your classes. (I think) cuz if you get an A in your AP class but a 2 on the AP test that obviously says something bad about ur school's AP class</p>
<p>So if I received a 5 on the exam but an A- in the course, I'd be looked upon just as favorably as someone who got a 5 but got an A+? Or more favorably than someone who got a 4 and an A+?</p>
<p>Back to the original topic. There are three possible sources of blame for the low standard top scores: the curve, the test, and the students. </p>
<p>On the possibility of the tests, I agree on some level with the OP: AP tests, with the exception of some, such as the BC Calc, World History and Music Theory, are not as well-designed or thorough as their college counterparts. </p>
<p>However, one cannot criticize the difficulty of any test, high or low, once it has been compensated by a curve. Few would dispute this. The test itself is therefore blameless. </p>
<p>But let's look at the curves themselves. They seem reasonable: the top 8-20% receive the highest score, and roughly half pass. One can't blame something as coldly mathematical as a well-designed curve, no matter how low or surprising the associated grades may be.</p>
<p>The question, then, is here: why are only 10% of kids prepared to receive passing grades in the course (if a 5 equals 60-70%)? The logical conclusion is that it's the classes that should be criticized--perhaps so many high school students have opted to take the exams that they have lost their college level difficulty. AP quality students are not the only ones taking AP courses any more.</p>