AP Tests = Joke?

Test Preparation AP Test Preparation
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<p>AP Tests and college placements are a joke. </p>

<p>First off, scoring a 5 on AP Tests is not so difficult. A 5 generally lies somewhere between 60-70%, out of the 100 point scale. In school, that is a D or even an F depending on the grading scale. In addition, the material is probably not as thorough in breadth or depth, compared to the material in college. </p>

<p>Second, I don't like how it all just boils down to one test, especially for juniors who do not have another opportunity to present scores before submitting their application ... is one test really a good reflection of a student's ability or comprehension of the material? Does one test really reflect the entire year's learning? Those who took the AP Chemistry this year would know, that the exam was unusually easy. Heck, the exam did not even have the traditional grade-killing Acid and Base or Precipitation question in its FRQ. I am baffled that colleges would let students skip an entire semester or year of coursework based on such exam. </p>

<p>Now, I know AP tests are important to many students, for earning college credits may save a lot of time and money. In this thread, I am merely questioning the validity of AP Tests. Perhaps the standards should be higher (~80% for a 5) or the material tested should be more in-depth. </p>

<p>Please, I want to hear your opinions.</p>

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<p>oh man ur asking for it. i mean, if the curve went up that high i bet half of the people in the US that get 5s will drop. well a D is passing in my school (i should know because i hang out with the dumbest people in my school and one got 4 Ds and still passed to the next level without taking any credit recovery class.). so maybe a D in college would be passing and if u get a score in that range then yeah u pass. but in my opinion, i dont think the curve is that low as well. look at last year statistics of the amount of people who got 5s out of all the tests. its not that much. and face it, this is CC, where all the smart people come. some of these guys want to go to top schools so it not nothing new for them to say it was easy. theyre just smart.</p>

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<p>The concept of one test determining everything is used in college, where one test can be 20% of the final class grade. Does acing a final in college * really * mean that you know everything taught in that class over the semester? or did you know what to study and what would be on the test, and prepared that material? The AP exams themselves are college-level (but not necessarily the classes that led to them).</p>

<p>If the exams aren't at a high enough level to suit itself, a college just won't grant credit for it. Like with the Human Geography exam - how many colleges actually grant credit for it? The Ivys rarely grant credit for anything below a 5, and even then, it could just be elective credit. If students that skipped a year ahead due to AP credit suddenly started failing in droves, then maybe the sysem would be seen as failing. </p>

<p>Think of the CPA exam, where it costs over a thousand dollars to take the test, and if you fail, you have to take it (and pay) again. That is truely a high-stakes situation.</p>

<p>Many college classes are graded on a curve. Who says that a raw score of 60% might not be an A after a curve is implemented? or that a 80% might be failing if a curve is very tough?</p>

<p>APs are used to replace * introductory * college courses. Is any intro course meant to be truely in-depth?</p>

<p>I am (obviously :) ) a strong supporter of the AP program.</p>

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<p>the correlation between ap scores/classes and the college classes differs from college to college. you talk about how easy the ap chem test was, but you might be surprised at how much of a joke chem 101 classes are at some universities. </p>

<p>the whole "only 70 percent thing" is arbitrary. don't look at how many questions right = 5, it doesn't actually work like that. scores are based on standardized curves. look at the percentages of people who get a 5, vs. percent of people who get a 4, etc.. Raising the standard to "80 %" or higher wouldn't mean anything, the questions on the test would just get easier.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
First off, scoring a 5 on AP Tests is not so difficult. A 5 generally lies somewhere between 60-70%, out of the 100 point scale. In school, that is a D or even an F depending on the grading scale. In addition, the material is probably not as thorough in breadth or depth, compared to the material in college.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A fundamental misunderstanding of how AP exams are created. To quote the College Board, "To be broad enough in scope to give every student who has covered an adequate amount of material an opportunity to make a good showing, the exam must be so comprehensive that no student should be expected to make a perfect or near perfect score." As you know, even introductory college courses have greatly differing curricula. </p>

<p>Plenty of kids going to our nation's most elite schools have scores below 5s on their AP transcripts, and of course, let us. To me, scoring 5s on APs has not been difficult, and I imagine that the same is true for a lot of CCers, but let us remember we are a very highly self-selected population. People who take APs are already screened from the general high school population to a high degree, and for every test, the mean score is somewhere around 3, usually less, often significantly so.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Second, I don't like how it all just boils down to one test, especially for juniors who do not have another opportunity to present scores before submitting their application ... is one test really a good reflection of a student's ability or comprehension of the material?

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</p>

<p>Sounds like somebody didn't find an exam as easy as it is supposed to be. Regardless, yes, a standardized test is the best reflection of a student's comprehension of material. Grade inflation is rampant in many American high schools. There is no superior way to measure mastery of material than a test that is fair to all, i.e. that is graded according to a single standard.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Does one test really reflect the entire year's learning?

[/quote]

Indeed and then some, which is why a 60% often results in a grade of 5.</p>

<p>
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Those who took the AP Chemistry this year would know, that the exam was unusually easy. Heck, the exam did not even have the traditional grade-killing Acid and Base or Precipitation question in its FRQ.

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</p>

<p>You don't think that the College Board does not equate raw scores so as to produce relatively similar distributions of AP grades over different years, do you?</p>

<p>
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I am baffled that colleges would let students skip an entire semester or year of coursework based on such exam.

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</p>

<p>I happen to be baffled by the fact that less challenging college courses, where the distribution of A's and B's represent 80% of the grade distribution, get credit, while APs often do not.</p>

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<p>Bartleby: Great great arguments. I by the way, didn't struggle too much; I got 5's on all of my exams :)</p>

<p>Cross-posting again, but here is a suggestion. How about, reporting a 200-800 scale, percentages, or even Z-Scores, instead of dividing the scores from 1-5? the divisions are too large as they are, and 5 scores do not do a great job distinguishing those who scored a 5 by getting 80% and those who scored a 5 by scoring 65%.</p>

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<p>Also, you should realize a lot of top schools do not accept AP credits for some classes.</p>

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<p>"Does one test really reflect the entire year's learning?"</p>

<p>You're trivializing it quite a bit. Its a 3 hour test that asks you to answer 80 MC questions and write 3 freaking essays (for ap histories).</p>

<p>I think its a fair assessment of a year's learning.</p>

<p>AP Questions are considerably trickier than those on your average teacher's tests. AP Questions tend to focus on critical thinking and analysis as opposed to simple fact recall.</p>

<p>Getting 70% on an AP test is much more difficult than getting a "D" on an average teacher's exam.</p>

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<p>^True, but I am not even sure about that.. for AP European History, I did not even finish one of my paragraphs for each of the two non-DBQ FRQ's. And I got a 5. </p>

<p>Also, if sophomores and even freshmen (who just started highschool!), are allowed to take the exam ... and by that I mean routinely (some HS let ppl enroll freely)...that says something about the difficulty IMO.</p>

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<p>You have to realize that the freshmen that do take AP exams and fare well in them are the extreme minority. I'm sure they'd have no problem doing well in a course at their community college, either. Many, many intro classes around the country really aren't that difficult. Perhaps you're comparing these exams to the most elite schools, but even there APs are accepted to a rather large extent--and the kids still do very well!</p>

<p>Until AP students start doing poorly in the classes they've jumped to (especially at elite universities where the courses are tougher than at a lower-level state school), I see no need to question the efficacy of AP exams.</p>

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<p>@OP.
You are one arrogantly blind person. AP tets dont automatically become a joke just because you thought they were easy.</p>

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<p>In college, your grade in some classes depends on one or two tests. So I really don't understand the OP's argument...</p>

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<p>I would agree that AP tests are indeed easy. There's really no reason to say they're not. I mean, I might've not gotten all 5's, but hey, I participate in stuff outside of school and I took 4 AP this year as a sophomore. Crap builds up. In any case, it's still not an excuse to say that AP tests aren't easy.</p>

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<p>If you know your stuff, the test will be easy, meaning you've covered the required material.</p>

<p>Its supposed to test you; not to be unfairly challenging.</p>

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<p>"How about, reporting a 200-800 scale, percentages, or even Z-Scores, instead of dividing the scores from 1-5? the divisions are too large as they are, and 5 scores do not do a great job distinguishing those who scored a 5 by getting 80% and those who scored a 5 by scoring 65%."</p>

<p>When your employers sees you college transcript, he won't see a z-score, a percentage, or a score on the 200-800 scale, he'll see a letter grade. Same principle applies here. What I think may help you realize the AP grade-setting process is fair is the fact that college students taking equivalent introductory courses also take sample APs and that acts as the basis for the boundaries between the grades.</p>

<p>Of course, students at more prestigious, more selective institutions are expected to be intellectually superior and more knowledgeable than the average American college student taking the introductory course, which is why many of these colleges don't accept 3s, sometimes 4s, and sometimes AP grades at all.</p>

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<p>"Those who took the AP Chemistry this year would know, that the exam was unusually easy. Heck, the exam did not even have the traditional grade-killing Acid and Base or Precipitation question in its FRQ."</p>

<p>Amen. AP tests were nothing to me but a means of testing out of general education classes that I wouldn't want to take anyway; they're definitely not a sign of any substantial ability.</p>

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<p>I don't know...even though I don't completely agree with the format of the APs (like the formulaic essays, for example), I think they are still comprehensive tests. Take AP Spanish for example: for me, that was the hardest AP out of the four I've taken (Bio, Chem, US Hist, Spanish Lang). It required that you not only be able to read, write, hear, and speak the language, but also be able to use these skills in many different ways. Although I did get a 5, I thought it was well-deserved considering the difficulty.</p>

<p>For Bio and Chem, I did think they were easy, but that's because those subjects are what I'm naturally good at/really prepared for. It depends on the person for what APs are easy, like my sister: she rocked all the history/humanities ones (all 5's) but then got a 3 on AB Calc. However, some other people, like those on these forums, tend to do well in many different subjects too, which is great: that fact doesn't invalidate what the scores mean.</p>

<p>I myself didn't realize how difficult these tests were on a national scale until I talked to kids from other high schools (I go to TJHSST) and heard them say "You got a 3! You're so lucky, I got a 2 on that exam!" Also, as people have stated before, if you look at the percentages, not many kids pull of a 5 in the already small group of kids (compared to the total number of HS students nationall) taking them.</p>

<p>Plus, it saves you money/time so you can take more advanced courses that really are difficult in college. Why not get the "easy" stuff out of the way? </p>

<p>I myself am not complaining :-P</p>

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<p>The College Board conducts validation studies on all AP tests from time to time by giving the tests to actual college students who have just taken a matching college course. That's what sets the scoring levels for an AP score of 5, 4, 3, and so on. Different colleges have different levels of course difficulty, which is also why you can place out of a college course with an AP score at some colleges but not at all, even with a 5, at other colleges.</p>

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<p>I keep saying factually incomplete statements such as the following:</p>

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</p>

<p>While some AP exam questions are given to college level students prior to them actually appearing on an AP exam, this really isn't the only factor. Reading the last paragraph at Scoring</a> AP Exams suggests that it is one possible factor, but because continuity is crucial, I believe the paragraph clearly suggests that the most important factor in determining overall grades is "...multiple-choice questions appear on the same exam from year to year in order to provide statistical equating of scores from one year to the next."</p>

<p>The college students that may be randomly selected to participate in new question surveys, while providing information about how well they do, doesn't necessarily create the continuity that is desired. Further, in a conversation with a table leader, I am under the distinct impression that these multiple choice questions are the most important factor.</p>

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<p>the only problem i see is that most exams tend to be formulaic, and so students learn more about taking the test than learning the material. But then, it is up to the teacher to make the class a true college class through supplementary assessment, such as projects, research and labs. But if you are asking if they are extensive enough, then yes. Have you seen the art history curriculum!? Or the Computer Science ab exam? It's huge. I think they are comprehensive enough.</p>