<p>as far as being in an IB program vs a regular high school program with AP classes, more kids from my regular high school program got into the top schools than those from the IB program. Students think that just because they are in the IB program, they have an automatic in with every school that they want, and it isnt the case anymore. out of the many IB students who applied ED to the ivy league schools, i only know of 1 kid who got in ED (cornell)...and maybe 3 total who are going to other ivy schools (cornell, brown, and princeton). why stress out with IB when you can get the same education at a regular high school?</p>
<p>IB may be better for some students, AP is certainly better for many students.</p>
<p>Some background: The International Baccalaureate Programme was invented in Switzerland in 1924, in a school called The International School, to enable the children of League of Nations diplomatic staff to attend a single school. Classes were taught in French. Reasons for this school included promoting inter-cultural understanding and internationalism, and giving families an opportunity to stay together, rather than sending kids off to boarding schools in Europe and America.</p>
<p>In most of the world today, IB Programme schools are still private. They enable diplomats and overseas-stationed businesspeople to keep their kids with them and obtain an education that qualifies their children for admission to universities in their home countries. In Third World nations, the schools qualify the children of native professionals to also qualify for European and American universities. Some schools teach classes in English, others in French, depending on the country in which the schools operate.</p>
<p>In teaching many children classes in not-their-native-tongue, IB has to slow things down, relative to schools in which every student is fluent in the language of the classes. It's not a top-notch academic program. For example, in the US, only ca. 30 private schools offer IB. The Atlanta International School, which charges $20,000 tuition, had the highest SAT average of all American private IB schools in 2005, 1262. That score wouldn't rank in the top three private schools in Oregon or New Mexico. </p>
<p>In the U.S., Canada, and Australia, most IB schools are public. IB-public was originally promoted to inner-city black-student-predominant schools. The idea was that if it worked for students of color overseas, and it was a solid, albeit lowered-pace model, it could help American minority kids get into college, who traditionally would have no chance. It has largely been implemented in schools with large minority populations, albeit many of them now mixed-race magnet schools. The results have been less than magnificent. In the mixed-race magnet schools, white and Asian students disproportionately earn IB Diplomas, relative to minority program participants. </p>
<p>In one state flagship university I am familiar with, every AP subject is creditable, with suitable exam score, but only one-third of IB subjects are. Not because there is an anti-IB prejudice—the university would love to give credit to speed people along and lower enrollment impaction-- but because the university statistically measured the performances of IB students over many years, and they struggled when allowed to skip first-level courses and enroll in second-level courses. </p>
<p>Of note, The IB Organisation's Mission Statement states IB's purpose being to create a more peaceful world. Which is fine. But it has never proposed that it's purpose is to deliver the highest levels of academics available anywhere.</p>
<p>AP was originally devised for the smartest students in the country. All the top private schools adopted AP courses. However, as the College Board has attempted to "democratize" AP, it's been watered down. Many "Ivy League feeder schools" no longer label their college-creditable courses "AP", because these courses correspond to "old AP", but not "new AP". Their students take AP exams nonetheless. </p>
<p>Some students take AP courses in sophomore year, or even freshman year, then enroll in the IB Programme for 11th-12th grades. But most highest-achieving students who attend schools that offer large AP portfolios (20 or more AP courses) and IB, choose AP. In private international schools, students can take 4 HL (college-creditable) courses. In most public IB programme schools, students can take only 3 HL courses. </p>
<p>So for example, in a dual-program school, an early AP enrollee taking 1 freshman course (typically world history), 1-2 sophomore courses (e.g. U.S. history, psychology, studio art), then 3 IB HL courses, would graduate, with 4-5 college-creditable courses. If the same student did AP, he or she could do 1 freshman course, 1-2 sophomore courses, 3 junior courses, and 4 senior courses, i.e. 9-10 college-creditable courses. </p>
<p>The student who wants to take college-creditable biology, chemistry AND physics, must take the AP pathway: IBO doesn't allow three HL science courses to be taken. The superbright science and math student who wants to take calculus-based physics can only do this through AP Physics C: IB's HL Physics is traditional 12th-grade algebra-and-trig-based physics. IB has nothing comparable to AP Computer Science AB. </p>
<p>Very importantly a good number of private schools, and some publics, which have very smart kids who complete AP calculus BC in 11th grade, offer second-year college mathematics, either intramurally, or through local college concurrent enrollment. IB programme students can't do this. If you're an IB student and want to take cutting-edge modern languages such as Mandarin or Japanese, you can't do this. French, Spanish, German: how 1940s. </p>
<p>The College Board, administrator of AP, is a consortium of all highly-ranked private universities and LACs, every public flagship university, all well-respected high schools. It's an American institution. AP is designed to help kids succeed in American colleges and universities. IBO is a European organization. Headquartered in Geneva. President if French. Umm, how many state-school IB Diploma programs does Switzerland have? Zero. How about French state schools? ONE. If it's so cool, how come the seller nations' education ministries aren't buying it?</p>
<p>So, currently over 11,000 of American public high schools offer AP. About 430 offer IB. Numbers for IB are wavy-gravy because IBO North America reports as participants schools that are canceling, but not yet out of IB, and schools that are purchasing the program, but aren't yet teaching it. Nevertheless, 11,000 vs. 430 should tell you something: AP's annual growth is higher than American IB schools in toto. I suppose for parents who are anticipating seeing their kids enroll in the University of Madrid, or the University of Lyon (but you won't get a scholarship for them), an IB diploma makes sense. But if they are going to attend an American college or university, the College Board's AP progam makes more sense. </p>
<p>One of the things that makes AP "American" is that there are vast resources for it. You can get AP exam test preps from many independent publishers. You can join online help sites. IB is a closed system. Unless your kids are enrolled, you can't even find out what materials they use. I'll take American transparency vs. Euro behind-the-curtain every time.</p>
<p>I go to a high school in Birmingham, Alabama called Jefferson County International Baccalaureate School. It was rated # 1 in the nation by Jay Matthews and Newsweek during my freshmen year and has subsequently fallen to 2, 4, and I don't know if he has new rankings for this year. At my school, we combine AP and IB courses. For instance, last year I took AP Human Geography and IB Geography in the same class. Here's how I feel about the situation.</p>
<p>IB is a better program, if you're a diplomma candidate. It is a lot of work, but if you are up for the task, it can be very rewarding. There is much more depth in IB than there is in AP. AP is just a test that you take in May, but IB is a process. That being said, most colleges typically accept AP credit more often than IB. Usually, they only take "higher level" IB credit. Also, AP is more accessible than IB. You see a ton of AP prep books at bookstores, and you don't see any IB prep books. </p>
<p>As far as being prepared for college, IB is better. AP essentially asks you to regurgitate facts that you might forget the day after the exam, but like I said before, with IB, you get depth on a particular subject.</p>
<p>I would suggest trying to go for the IB diplomma and take AP courses. If not, you have to prioritize. Would you rather take courses that most colleges are more willing to accept as credit to get out of basic courses or would you rather be in an engaging and helpful but sometimes incredibly challenging program?</p>
<p>As an IB Student who believes every innocent highschooler deserves to have a LIFE in their secondary education, I recommend the AP.</p>
<p>Just kidding.</p>
<p>I think to put it in the least amount of words:
AP = harder courses, college credits
IB = more difficult experience, more endearing experience</p>
<p>I haven't met anyone who regretted IB afterward, because the experience was really great. We have a full IB Diploma class of 130 at our school, and the program really brought us together (try having 40 people all up at 5am discussing their all-nighter for a Theory of Knowledge paper). I always thought that AP was the quick way to success while IB truly gives you a taste of pain and joy.</p>
<p>For those who want to go into an international-related field, I recommend IB for its large emphasis on global understanding and cultural interaction. </p>
<p>Just a quick note on some very stringent IB requirements to be completed in your two years
1) 4000 Word Extended Essay on one of the IB subjects
2) 3 or 4 HLs, 2 or 3 SLs, only HLs count for univ credit mostly
3) 150 hours of CAS - Creative, Action, Service (ie. sports and volunteer)
4) Theory of Knowledge Class - you discuss philosophy, some people called it anti-religion, meh
5) Deadly May exams (oh god someone save me, they're a month away!!) This year I have 10 in the first week, 2 in the second week, and 4 in the last week because subjects are split into Paper 1, 2, and 3
6) Countless suffering buddies
7) Success in the real world.
8) Ability to produce coherent but largely BS-ed posts as this, cheers.</p>
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8) Ability to produce coherent but largely BS-ed posts as this, cheers.
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<p>I've observed that one. :) I think recently another CC participant quoted the high school proverb, "IB, therefore I b.s."</p>
<p>Good luck to all of this year's applicants. The news from the remaining colleges to announce news mostly comes soon.</p>
<p>IB is like taking 6 AP classes in a year, but with the Extended Essay, Theory Of Knowledge (and its essay), 180 CAS hours (the requirement at my school), IAs for each subject, two day exams, 15 minute impromptu english/spanish/french orals, etc mixed in - all EXTRA work done out of class. As someone above said, it is endearing, but extremely time-consuming.</p>
<p>I have a question that has been bothering me for a while:</p>
<p>If IB SL tests are comparable to AP tests, why do 99% of universities don't accept SL test scores?</p>
<p>Is there a conspiracy?</p>
<p>AP, from the books I've read, is sort of in between IB HL and SL. I took Chem HL last year and picked SL this year, and there is a HUGE difference. There's no way that AP Chem is like Chem SL.</p>
<p>IB SL courses are either like regular courses or even lower than regular courses (in the case of Chemistry, it doesn't even measure up to the BC Provincial 12 Chem here).</p>
<p>
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If IB SL tests are comparable to AP tests, why do 99% of universities don't accept SL test scores?
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</p>
<p>As far as I'm aware, IB SL tests are not always comparable to AP tests, so there's no conspiracy. And I think the person above me is right when they say AP falls sort of in between HL and SL.</p>
<p>Although I'm in the IB program and I would say that depending on the subject the SL test can be comparable to the AP test or it cannot but, quite honestly, the same goes for HL tests. I'm taking HL Spanish and the HL test is not nearly as hard as the AP Spanish Literature and I would say AP Spanish Language test as well.</p>
<p>Not to say that you're not getting as good an education with the IB program if the HL or SL subject test isn't as hard as the AP test in that subject or vice versa, but the two program just have such different learning/teaching philosophies which impact what they choose to focus on in the various subjects across the board. If that makes sense</p>
<p>
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I think to put it in the least amount of words:
AP = harder courses, college credits
IB = more difficult experience, more endearing experience
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</p>
<p>I would say this is pretty much accurate. The only thing is I think the part about 'harder courses' can be misleading. Like steelyboy said, AP is really about a regurgitation of facts than anything else which I think is what makes certain AP classes/tests harder because it's just so technical and AP asks you to be this brilliant machine who can just know everything -- even the most obscure stuff -- there is to know about the particular subject.</p>
<p>My friends and I say that AP tests try and find out what you don't know, while I.B. tests want to find out what you do know. </p>
<p>I love I.B. because I think that taking the full diploma programme really is a more endearing experience and it does bring you closer together with your peers but most of all it allows you a freedom of expression and intellectual creativity that I don't think you get with A.P. With stuff like the ToK and E.E. essay and alot of our internal assessments, it's really up to you the student to take an active role in your own education and CHOOSE something you are passionate about and like and write a scholarly essay/paper on it. You can't just sit there and study and absorb the information that they want you to now and then fill in bubbles based on this storage of information.</p>
<p>And okay, I guess now it sounds like I'm bashing AP (and yes you DO write essays in AP too) and I guess part of those statements might be just how IB or AP is run at my school and obviously these statements don't apply to everyone. You still are intellectually challenged with AP but I'm just more likely to get kids in AP classes that are just studying for the test and don't care about what they're learning just about how what they're learning will look good to colleges. And I guess alot of kids do that and that's their prerogative and they'll care once they get into the college they want...I guess just being in I.B. has really highlighted to me the importance of actually making school about learning and not just test-taking or studying for some test or to make the grade.</p>
<p>Obviously I do that too and it's important to me to get good grades, but the reason I don't regret my I.B. experience is because it really has allowed me to fulfill my intellectual potential in a manner that I don't think could've happened with A.P.</p>
<p>And wow, my post has nothing to do with what the original thread question is asking.</p>
<p>But for people wondering what to choose...I'm a complete I.B. advocate but I do realize that it is not for everyone. Honestly, I think there are some schools that do prefer I.B. and if you just ask, I think they'll make it clear if they do or not (BC I know does, universities in Florida like was mentioned, the diploma takes care of your first year at Pitzer). But right now the majority I'd say do regard them with equal weight like they say.</p>
<p>I think when it comes down to it, it might not be so much AP vs IB but what courses you decide to take in either of those programs. Colleges will want to see that you've taken either AP or IB (or honors, whatever is the most demanding at your school) or both and then they'll look at how many and how challenging of AP or IB courses/tests you took.</p>
<p>P.S. At my school though, only if you do the I.B. program do you get the designation of "Most Demanding." I guess that's based on our I.B./A.P. coordinator's perspective though (although I'm not sure if she coordinates AP still...)</p>
<p>as an IB kid, I have one piece of advice: Don't do IB, do AP.</p>
<p>IB is worthless...end of story.</p>
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<p>This is because UF receives at least 1/6 of the graduating class from my school each year, a large portion of whom are IB students.</p>
<p>As an IB student, I would definitely recommend the program. It is what you make it. If you make it worthless, it will be worthless. </p>
<p>My school offers classes that prepare you for both AP and IB exams - for example, AP/IB English Language or AP Calculus AB/IB Math SL. This sort of curriculum is preferable to choosing either AP or IB.</p>
<p>I'm a senior in IB. My school offered AP and IB. I believe that if your kid goes to an IB school then it will look bad if they are not in IB. If they go to a non-ib school, then AP is just as good as IB. IB is harder, but the school won't hold it against you if you don't have it at your school.</p>
<p>IMO, IB is not harder, but definitely more work. If you work incredibly hard in IB, and you are not as smart as the top students in your class, you can still get your diploma. If you work incredibly hard in 7 or 8 AP classes, but you are just not "smart" enough, it does not necessarily mean you will do well. IB is a very strong "high school" diploma. AP courses are "college level" classes. you decide which is higher.</p>
<p>*note: IB promotes itself as a "diploma program" where college board AP promotes itself as "college level" courses. It is not my opinion that IB offers a strong diploma and AP courses offer college level classes, but these are statements from respective websites.</p>
<p>At my daughter's school, the school believes that its IB curriculum is its most rigorous curriculum - even though it has no history since this is its first IB graduating class. My daughter originally signed up for the full-fledged IB diploma, found it not to be challenging and focused in areas she was not interested in. She dropped out and is taking a mixture of AP and IB classes. She is among 4 National Merit Finalists at her school (3 of whom opted not to take IB). Yet the school still presents IB as its most rigorous curriculum. As April 1 rolls around, it will be interesting to see if she will be hurt by the fact that she dropped out of IB.</p>
<p>Naturally, a school is going to encounter problems when introducing any new curriculum for the first time. I believe that my school is now in its 28th year of offering the IB Diploma Program, and I've consistently noticed that there's a substantial difference between the students enrolled in the IB program, taking both AP and IB classes, and just students taking AP classes. The majority of our National Merit Finalists are IB students. The majority of the top 10% of our class are IB students. Forgetting the statistics, the IB students simply seem more focused, more diverse, and less...dumb, to put it bluntly.</p>
<p>Yes, I would imagine that a well-established IB program would be better than a fledgling IB program. However, the question remains regarding how the colleges will react to a student who chose not to continue in a fledgling IB program which did not suit her needs. In the high school's evaluation, she did not take its most rigorous program - IB - despite the fact that she is taking Math (AP BC Calculus), Chemistry (Organic) and Spanish (AP 6th year) at higher levels than are being offered in IB.</p>
<p>In that case, the IB program there seems to have some serious faults. Here, AP Calculus BC is integrated with IB Math Higher Level, and students take both exams at the end of the year. The same is true for AP Chem and Spanish.</p>
<p>Her high school's IB program did not offer Higher Level Math or Higher Level Chemistry. Even as an IB candidate, she was not taking IB Math - it would have been too repetitive for her. That's part of why my daughter left the program - that, and that it did not allow her to do as much theater as she wanted to do because theater is not part of its IB program either. Apparently not all IB programs are alike - hopefully the colleges recognize that.</p>
<p>A couple of cynical comments on goddessxx's list:</p>
<p>1) 4000 Word Extended Essay on one of the IB subjects</p>
<p>You can do an absolutely terrible job on this and get zero points, and you will still get your IB diploma. Only if you fail to turn it in at all will it cost you your diploma. I know IB students who deliberately chose to put minimal effort into their Extended Essays for just this reason.</p>
<p>5) Deadly May exams (oh god someone save me, they're a month away!!) This year I have 10 in the first week, 2 in the second week, and 4 in the last week because subjects are split into Paper 1, 2, and 3.</p>
<p>The only exams you have to worry about are the ones you take in your junior year -- two SL exams at most. Your scores on those will go on some college applications. As for the rest, who cares? You will already be admitted into college long before you get your exam scores. Worst case: you don't get enough points for the IB diploma. So what? This will have absolutely no effect on your future. In fact, because you don't get your scores until July, even your friends will never know that you didn't get the diploma unless you tell them.</p>
<p>My daughter is a freshman in college. The officials at her college never asked her to report her senior year IB scores to them. She could have had her scores sent if she wanted to, but since she knew she would get no additional credit or advanced placement from those scores (beyond what she had already gotten from AP tests), she did not bother to do so. The college never questioned this. She could have failed her IB tests and not received the diploma, and her college would never know. (In fact, she didn't even come close to failing -- only 24 points are required, and she got a 39 out of 45 -- but that's irrelevant.)</p>
<p>Please note that I'm not an IB student. I'm an IB parent. But parents can be cynical, too.</p>
<p>"As for the rest, who cares? You will already be admitted into college long before you get your exam scores. Worst case: you don't get enough points for the IB diploma. So what? This will have absolutely no effect on your future."</p>
<p>I'm graduating from college a year early because of my IB diploma + AP credits. therefore, recieving my IB diploma did affect my future a bit.</p>