Applying to ALL these schools (22..) - good or bad?

Applying to College
1

<p>I'm an international student and as you know it's really competitive to get in as one, so I'm planning to apply to 22 colleges... It'll be hard financially for me regarding fees, but I've saved up some money from scholarships so I'll be able to do it.</p>

<p>I'll start writing my essays in August. School starts mid-September, so I'd have a month or so without any disruptions or worries about grades. I'll start off by applying to Amherst ED, and in the scenario I don't get in I'll have already written all the other essays I'll just need to send in the apps for the other 21 schools. My potential major is Economics or Business (for the schools which offer it) but I'm learning towards LACs because I'm not 100% sure what I want to do. I'll also require full or close to full financial aid. </p>

<p>However, can <em>all</em> 22 schools reject me? Should I put some ''safety'' schools or do you think I already have some? Is 22 too much? Are my dreams too far-fetched? Am I good enough or should I aim lower?</p>

<p>My brother got a BA @ Amherst and PhD @ Northwestern, if that counts as a legacy.</p>

<p>These are the schools:</p>

<p>Amherst College (Early Decision)):
Northwestern:
Williams College:
Pomona College:
Lafayette College:
NYU Shanghai (but also NY campus):
Duke:
Uni of Southern California:
UCLA:
UC Berkeley:
UC Santa Barbara:
MIT:
Stanford:
Vanderbilt:
Pepperdine:
Harvard:
Yale:
Princeton:
Brown:
Cornell:
Dartmouth:
Columbia:</p>

<p>Here's my stats:
GPA: 3.83 UW (My Bs are: PE 9th+10th grade, 9th IT, 11th Bulgarian, 12th Physics)
SAT I: ~2200 total - 720CR, 760M, 720W
SAT II: Biology M 730, Math IC 730
Status: International student
Very good recs, the teachers and counsellor love me.
Common app essay about my transition from daddy's little girl to an strong woman after his death by facing my fear of not being able to swim. I wouldn't go into the water without holding my dad's hand, but I later faced my fear and learnt to swim on my own with the idea that learning that would be like... finally letting go and turning into the adult I'm supposed to be.
Family income <$10K per year - demonstrate full need.</p>

<p>ACADEMIC HONORS AND AWARDS
-3rd in national olympiad in English (10th grade)
-Qualified for national olympiad in English (11th grade), but was unable to attend because I was abroad on a cultural exchange
-Top 16 (unranked) national creative writing essays in English
-Distinction as best in school and municipality in English
-Single-handedly picked by politician/journalist for his merit scholarship
-Honorary mention by the European Commission as a runner up with an outstanding EN-BG translation in the Juvenes Translatores competition for secondary schools in Europe
-Won St. Valentine's Day themed English poetry contest</p>

<p>LEADERSHIP / EXTRACURRICULAR / VOLUNTEER ACTIVITIES</p>

<p>People to People International (9-12) - Chapter Secretary [mostly organize and coordinate fund-raising events]
StudyUSA Club (11-12) - Founder and President [organize presentations about American education, history, economy, lit, etc,; got in contact with school alumni from US to host lectures; brought an American TA to school]
School Newspaper (9-12) - Treasurer and writer
Youth Red Cross (10-12) - Volunteer
English For the Talented Club (11) - [founded by the ministry of education after my achievement in the national olympiad]
Annually organize the school's alumni reunion (9-12)
Annually organize the school's chemistry fair (9-12)
Annually volunteer in the organization of the city's open nights of Museums and Galleries (10-12)
Throughout 11th grade: Wrote 50-page historical research about the tobacco-workers' outcry in 1940. Submitted it to a national research competition: results are due June 2014, high chance of award.</p>

<p>WORK EXPERIENCE</p>

<p>Unpaid internship as a secretary in International Cooperative Alliance (summer before senior year) - organize transportation during their trips, translate to English, etc.</p>

<p>INTERNATIONAL EXPERIENCE</p>

<p>International cultural exchange in Germany through "Comenius" program
International cultural exchange in The Netherlands, through "Netherlands-Romania" foundation</p>

2

<p>Well that’s 20 applications since the UCs are done in one. You are full pay?</p>

3

<p>I can pay for the applications, but for the tuitions probably no. I’ll be applying for financial aid and I’ll be needing the full package. </p>

4

<p>Make sure you look at each financial aid policy for international students. Many schools do not give financial aid (or if they do, it wouldn’t even be close to the full tuition and probably not even half of it) to international applicants as they reserve that for US citizens/permanent residents.</p>

<p>Your ECs/stats are pretty good. They’ll land you in the middle 50% for the tops schools like Yale and Stanford on your list so they won’t keep you out. I would apply to some colleges in your own country as safeties. </p>

<p>I also wouldn’t apply to so many schools. There’s no way you can be in love with all of them. I would take that list of 22 and cut it down to about 15 with 2-3 safeties included giving you about 12 or 13 reaches. </p>

5

<p>Thanks for the tips, Firefire! It was helpful. </p>

<p>I was actually kind of worried about the FA for internationals as well. From what I’ve read schools like NYU and USC, for example, require you to show a document that proves you’ll be able to pay your tuition, which leads me to the thought that there’s no FA for internationals. The Shanghai NYU campus is pretty generous with FA for internationals though, unlike the NYC one, so I might just leave the NYC one out. </p>

<p>I’ll further look into which can cover expenses, but I’m going to make a wild guess and say that’s the Ivies, Stanford and the top LACs (I’m not so sure about Pomona, though. But I’ve had friends who got full rides to Amherst and Laf). I’m just worried I’m not good enough for them. </p>

<p>If I cut down those schools that don’t give FA to internationals, I think those top schools are what I’m going to be left with… Which brings me back to the constant fear that each and every single one of them is going to reject or waitlist me :frowning: Does being in the middle 50% mean that I’m not the best, but I’m not the worst applicant either? And what does a ‘‘reach’’ mean (sorry, newbie here): that it’s hard, but possible to get in?</p>

<p>Unfortunately with my country’s system I doubt I’ll have time to study for several local universities’ entry exams, so my back-up plan is actually 3 schools in England, though one of them is Oxford so I don’t think it counts as a safety school. The other ones should be matches, though… Hopefully, if something goes wrong.</p>

6

<p>Hi there, </p>

<p>You know that the UCs don’t give financial aid to internationals?
I’d just eliminate all the UCs and NYU.
Also, your list seems kind of random.
Do You know that Pepperdine is a very Cristian college that requires service attendance, bible study, and sticking to strict rules? If you like NYU, you won’t like Pepperdine.
You can also take a liberal arts curriculum at a university provided you are part of the college of liberal arts (eg. Dartmouth college/Harvard college etc.) </p>

<p>Can you maybe list your criteria for colleges? That way we might be able to give you some suggestions based on those. </p>

<p>And yes, it is very possible that you will get rejected by (almost) every college you apply to (or get accepted without financial aid.) in fact, it happens to tons of internationals every year.
Oxford is NOT a safety. Most schools in the UK are not because they have very different criteria and often reject foreign students because they don’t meet curricular requirements (equivalent of 4 aLevels for example.) also, can you come up with 9000 pounds a year?
If not, it’s not a safety. </p>

<p>Chances are you will have no safeties except in your home country (or the universities that give out automatic full-tuition scholarships, e.g the University of Alabama. </p>

<p>I’m also an international student headed to Amherst by the way, so feel free to contact me. Since I have been there, done that, I’m giving you this advice out of not wanting you to experience the disappointment almost all internationals experience, especially when asking for financial aid. </p>

<p>Best regards! :slight_smile: </p>

7

<p>NYU gives out such a meagre FA package to US citizens anyways. But you have an interesting story. An international applicant (Eastern European?) whose underprivileged and managed to accomplish that much is pretty commendable. I’ll have to compete with you next year for many of those same schools so it’s scary to know that this is how competitive the competition is!</p>

<p>And don’t worry about getting rejected. I’d be surprised if you don’t get into at least one of your Ivies/top LAC choices. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not impossible. There’s still that chance especially since most of those schools have sub-8% acceptance rates.</p>

<p>I’ll try to explain middle 50%:
Let’s say the school says their middle 50% is 720-790 (Yale) on the Critical Reading section. This means that of the people they admitted into the incoming class, 25% of them had CR scores below 720 or at 720 and 25% had scores at 790 or above(800). Therefore, 50% of its class had scores between or at 730-780.
It works with GPA too.
Once you meet the middle 50% of any school, you’re in good shape. For the Harvard/Stanford/Princeton/Yale, once you hit a 3.75 or 3.8 GPA and the middle 50% for the SAT/ACT scores, you won’t be rejected based of academics.
Which is good! Because if you get rejected from any of those schools, you will know it will be based off of your ECs or your essays.</p>

<p>And a reach school means it’s going to be difficult to get into with your stats. Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, MIT, Cornell, etc… is hard for anyone to get into no matter their stats. These are reaches for everyone. You don’t apply to Yale thinking you’re going to get into Yale because that’s unreasonable with Yale only having a 6% acceptance rate.
To make it scarier: 94% of people that applied got rejected. Isn’t that a scarier number than 6% of people that applied got in? It really puts things into perspective.</p>

<p>And Oxford/Cambridge are pretty self-selecting since UK students can only apply to a certain number of schools (I believe 5). So only applicants who really and truly think they have a shot will apply to those schools (unlike the US where you’ll have quite a few people applying to top 20 schools with no chance of getting in because they can). They have around a 20% acceptance rate but I’m sure if the application limit wasn’t in place, their acceptance rate would be more around 10% or lower.</p>

<p>If you have any questions, feel free to ask them! I love answering them.</p>

8

<p>Hopee! Thanks a lot for the reply. </p>

<p>Honestly, some of the internationals just want to get away from their home country and study in the USA regardless of what the social life there is like, while others just haven’t decided what exactly they expect from their college experience yet. For me, it’s a little bit of both. Right now I’m digging the small college feel that Amherst gives off (but at the same time there’s the 5C and the town, which makes it sound even better!) and that’s probably my nearly-ideal candidate, so that’s why I’m applying there ED.
…Other than the fact I’ve been sleeping with a stuffed Amherst teddy bear since I was 8 :smiley:
The other universities were mostly based off rankings and whether I found the campus vibe pleasant, but for some I haven’t really looked into greater detail.</p>

<p>The Amherst admission office told me that I’m not considered a legacy even though my brother studied there (…which crushed me, because I was sure that was going to give me a small boost), but in the common data set states they take into consideration any alumni relation, so I still have some hope that it’ll help out as well, especially since he used to help out at their office and show off his smarts… You know, they could think it goes in the genes? Kidding of course, but still - I’ve heard it’s pretty hard to get into Amherst ED if you’re not a legacy, URM or recruited athlete - and I’m apparently I’m none of those, not to mention they only get like 16 internationals ED… So I’ve been bummed that they probably will waist-list (or outright reject) me, and I think we know how slim the chances are of getting off the wait list.</p>

<p>However, when thinking of what life at Amherst would be like I often do catch myself thinking about a different campus, Greek Life and the different opportunities that bigger universities could offer. But at the same time the thought of going into the liberal arts of a university doesn’t sound nearly as half appealing as an actual LAC. </p>

<p>I did research Pepperdine before-hand, and though I was left with the impression that it’s not so strict I definitely did see that it’s religious. Being Christian, I don’t really find it that bad, but maybe it’s a good idea for me to start looking for actual students’ who attend there feedback on this. For example, I’m not exactly the girl who’ll spend every night partying and drinking, but I definitely want to have the opportunity to have a few drinks with friends every once in a while… Which maybe won’t be so possible in a school like that.</p>

<p>If the UCs don’t give FA to internationals I’m definitely crossing them off my list. I’ll make sure later, for USC as well. I decided I’ll probably skip the NYC campus of NYU, but only the Shanghai one because it’s pretty generous when it comes to FA. </p>

<p>Home country university is definitely a no-no. The tests to get in are extremely rigorous (not to mention different for every university :frowning: ) and they don’t take into account any recommendations, essays or ECs - so it all depends on your grades and entry exams. I’ll know whether I’m accepted somewhere in the US by December (or April…) and two months to learn the material which other people with so much time on their times have been studying the past two years is going to be a bit too much of a challenge I’m afraid. That’s why I considered another place that also takes into account recs and certificates. I think if I got a high TOEFL score I could get in Oxford with my awards (maybe x.x), but my GPA would definitely be a huge setback for there because they tend to focus more on the academic aspect of the application. That’s why my other 2 UK schools aren’t nearly as high in the rankings as Oxford. For the 9K, the only hope I have is that of a student loan.</p>

<p>Ahh, I think I ranted too much. I’m taking it you’re going to be Class of 2018? If you don’t mind me asking, which country were you from, what were your stats and did you apply ED or RD? I’m really curious because you’re the first Lord Jeff I’m talking to other than my brother. :slight_smile: Thanks a lot for your reply!</p>

9

<p>If you want to go to school in the US, I’d add some schools with rolling admissions so that you’ll have one safety that you are in before you even need to send the bulk of your applications.</p>

<p>I agree that the list is just too prestige heavy, that it looks like you don’t care where you go, just so you go to a big name school. Would someone who wants to go to Dartmouth be just as happy at Duke or Columbia or one of the UC’s? It will cost you a fortune to apply to those schools, not to mention the quality of your applications will suffer just because of volumn. How will you apply to all the financial aid offices? Make sure all the SAT information is sent to 20+ places? You have to winnow the list.</p>

10

<p>Firefire, thanks a lot for the clarification with the terms there! </p>

<p>You’re right - I’m Eastern European. While we’re still on that topic, I’ve actually been wondering whether my family’s situation (I also live only with my grams because my mum’s been out of the picture for 6 years now… That definitely makes the FA documents harder to fill out, doesn’t it? :D) and my geographic location could help me out a teeny bit. My brother keeps saying that it will, but I have a hard time believing him. </p>

<p>And I know right! I’ve been looking at the CC boards a lot recently and I see so many qualified candidates both from the USA and abroad for the top ranking schools and I’m just sitting here wondering what makes me stand out. I’m actually so glad that most schools consider Americans and internationals separately because if I had to compete next to all those varsity players and award-winning geniuses from across the pond I’d totally give up. Not saying that international students don’t have all those things, but the CC members have left me with the impression that the USA seems to have some more opportunities than, say, Europeans. I hope when the admission offices are reviewing my application they’ll take into consideration that in Bulgaria there’s not much you can do regarding ECs. Especially for public and competitive schools. In fact, my school actually allowed clubs for the first time when I got to 9th grade! (Talk about lucky, lol)</p>

<p>Are you international or American? :)</p>

<p>Thanks again for the tips! I love it when friendly CC members come along to help out.</p>

11

<p>Two, thanks as well! I loved your rolling admissions idea - honestly, I hadn’t even heard of it so far but I just googled it and it seems like a pretty reasonable idea :">. Do you think being accepted into a college like that would conflict with the Early Decision policy, though? </p>

<p>I actually talked to my country’s Fulbright Commission consultant a few months ago and she told me that while the majority of American students apply to up to 10 universities, most internationals go as far as 20 because it’s so competitive. That’s why at first it didn’t seem like a bizarre idea to apply to 20.</p>

<p>I’ve also considered that the quality might suffer, but I was thinking that if I spread out writing an essay or two per day during August till mid-September at least I wouldn’t lose any quality of the essays… Hopefully. You’re right, though, I’ll probably remove a few more from the list and I’ll definitely need to find maybe 1 safety school in the US as well… How many schools would you personally recommend I leave as a final number?</p>

12

<p>As you should! I couldn’t do such an LAC like Amherst only because it is so small but I’m glad you enjoy it. It does have a nice campus but besides that, I don’t know much about it.</p>

<p>I did the same thing last year. I had a list of like 20 schools and I realized that even if I got accepted into some of those schools, I probably wouldn’t attend them over one of my safeties. So I cut the list down to 12 reaches and 3 safeties. So that’s 15 schools, still a very large amount, but I have an extra 2 safeties now that I’ll be happy with and 12 reach schools that I would definitely choose over my safeties.</p>

<p>Hahaha if anything, that relation will do very little sadly. But yeah, the waitlist is impossible to get off which is why if I get accepted into even 1 of my reach schools, I won’t accept a waitlist spot for any school. There’s no point. I have a school I’m happy with and I won’t spend all summer thinking about a different school.</p>

<p>And it’s good that you like the small school feel but make sure on the Why Amherst essay, you focus on Amherst. What makes Amherst distinctively Amherst?</p>

<p>I crossed off Notre Dame off my list for a very similar reason. Their policies regarding personal lives and dorms just didn’t interest me but it’s still a great school. It’s just not one I’d be happy to attend for 4 years.</p>

<p>I would look at the UC websites. I don’t know much about them but seeing as they are public institutions paid for by the taxpayers of California, I don’t think internationals will get much, if any, FA. Out of state students from the US have difficulty getting into the schools never mind FA as well.</p>

<p>Oxford doesn’t take into accounts ECs either. They have a personal statement (essay) where you talk about the subject you want to study and why. And if you have ECs that pertain to that subject, you can find a way to talk about those in your essay. They look at test scores, transcripts, and the interview. Remember that 80% of students that apply get an interview (on campus, so you’ll have to travel but I’m sure you could do a phone or Skype interview) and they only about a 20% acceptance rate. So 75% of QUALIFIED students that interview are rejected. It’s daunting. </p>

<p>Hahaha, nope nope. I’m class of 2019. I will be applying in the fall alongside you. But I won’t be applying to Amherst so there’s at least 1 less applicant you have to compete against. However, I will be applying to Yale SCEA and then about 8 colleges on your list regular decision.</p>