University Options for an International Student

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello fellow CCers.
I know it's a little too late to be asking this but I could really use some help with my college list.
I am an international student applying to the US with financial aid (About 80%). Please suggest some generous universities with good economics and social sciences programs for an international student. Won't be able to attend if I don't get 80%+ financial aid. I applied ED to Penn. So I have my common app and recs in place but need to work on supplements. I can apply to 8 other universities so please suggest a mix of reach, match and safeties. Currently I'm considering Yale, Dartmouth, Amherst, UChicago, Northwestern, Babson, WashU and Middlebury/Swarthmore/Vanderbilt.</p>

<p>Objective:</p>

<p>SAT I (breakdown): 2290 (780 M, 760 CR, 750 W Essay 10)
ACT (breakdown): -
SAT II: Math 2 770, Physics 780, Chemistry 800
Unweighted GPA (out of 4.0): We don't have GPAs in my school or my country for that matter but I've gotten As and A<em>s (equivalent to A+s) in my high school years except for a B in my national language (Urdu in grade 10 but I've heard it doesn't count) so that should be a 4.0 I believe. (Had 12 A</em>s, 1 B in O levels/Grade 10, 3 A*s and 2 As in Junior year/grade 11 finals)
Rank (percentile if rank is unavailable): Top 5%
AP (place score in parenthesis):-
IB (place score in parenthesis):-
Senior Year Course Load: I'm taking 5 Cambridge AS and A Level Subjects- Mathematics, Chemistry, Physics, Economics, General Paper (It's a writing exam). This is as tough as it gets, given the options. (There's only one subject that's superior in terms of rigor to these: Further Mathematics, which I don't take but I've heard that it's as rigorous as Economics or Chemistry)
Major Awards (USAMO, Intel etc.): Cambridge Outstanding Learner Award for Top in my city in Ordinary Level Sociology; Cambridge Outstanding Leaner award for second best across 9 Cambridge O level Exams, 3rd best candidate in O levels in my batch.</p>

<p>Subjective:</p>

<p>Extracurriculars (place leadership in parenthesis): Parliamentary Debates, 4 years, national champion, won 3 local/national championships, made to quarters and semis of many others, shortlisted for the team to represent Pakistan at EurOpen Debating Championship (President of school's debate society); MUN, 4 years, won HMUN China, assistant director at HMUN India, won 4 local/national MUNs, chaired a recent MUN conference of 700 delegates (Executive member of school's MUN society), French Club (executive Member), Member of Entrepreneurial Club (heading an entrepreneurial event in January)
Job/Work Experience: Worked as an intern at a public limited company in the sales dept.
Volunteer/Community service: President of a local student run NGO that works for education, women empowerment and emergency relief efforts, taught public speaking and general knowledge at a school for underprivileged children, organized a campaign for the relief of IDPs of a military operation, went to IDP camps personally for distribution
Summer Activities: Above mentioned community service is what I've been doing in my summer break
Essays: I think it's a 9.5/10. Everyone who read it loved it and my counselor almost cried upon reading it
Teacher Recommendation: Got one from my french teacher (10/10) and one from my econ teacher (9/10). Both are great. The french one is better because its much more personal.
Counselor Rec: Very personal and quite an amazing rec (9.5/10)
Additional Rec: Got one from the founder of the NGO that I work for. (Obviously recs can be changed but I don't think they need to be changed)</p>

<p>Applied for Financial Aid?: Yes (About 80%)
Intended Major: Economics
State (if domestic applicant):
Country (if international applicant): Pakistan
School Type: Large semi-private school but my class size is small (~150)
Ethnicity: Asian
Gender: Male
Income Bracket: ~$80,000 a year
Hooks (URM, first generation college, etc.): None </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>At income of 80k, I think you will be expected to pay at least k a year unless you try for colleges that give large merit aid. Wow, such a wall-of-text too hard to read. Check Babson aid pages, if you aren’t eligible that is a wasted application.</p>

3

<p>Alright, I’ll do that. Thanks!
I’ll condense my stats to make it an easier read.
2290 on SAT Reasoning Test (780 M, 760 CR, 750 W Essay 10)
770 Math 2, 780 Physics, 800 Chem
Got As and A<em>s/A+s throughout high school except for one in Urdu in grade 10
12 A</em>s and 1 B in Cambridge O levels, 3 A*s and 2 As in Junior year finals
Cambridge Outstanding Learner Award for Top in the city in O level sociology
Cambridge Outstanding Learner Award for 2nd best candidate across 9 Cambridge O levels
3rd best O level candidate in my batch
Principal’s honor list throughout high school</p>

<p>Currently taking A Level Math, Chem, Physics, Economics and General Paper. </p>

<p>ECs include Parliamentary debates, MUNs, French and cultural stuff, student exchange, entrepreneurial club with major leadership positions in 2
Community Service: President of a local NGO that works for education, women empowerment and emergency relief efforts, taught public speaking and general knowledge at a school for underprivileged children, organized a campaign for the relief of IDPs of a military operation against the Taliban in Pakistan, went to IDP camps personally for distribution.</p>

4

<p>The problem won’t be getting in; the problem will be paying for it! Have you run the net price calculators to see the maximum amount of need based aid that you might be eligible for? The NPCs are geared toward US students and the resulting estimated family contribution may not be applicable tol internationals, but it will give you an idea of the MOST you can expect in need based aid.</p>

<p>If your EFC is still too steep then you need to ditch your current list (mostly need-only schools) and find some schools that offer merit aid. This is always tricky for internationals, as merit aid is unpredictable and inconsistent.</p>

<p>I would suggest that you add some small liberal arts colleges that get fewer Asian applicants. If need based financial aid works, then in addition to Amherst and Middlebury I’d consider Williams, Hamilton.</p>

<p>If you need merit aid look at Grinnell, Macalester. Also Emory, which is a mid-sized university.</p>

5

<p>UChicago, Northwestern, Babson, WashU and Middlebury/Swarthmore/Vanderbilt = keep Middlebury, ditch 3 from the rest. Apply to Midwestern LACs - Carleton, Grinnell, Macalester? </p>

6

<p>Thanks @momrath, I’ll run the NPC and check.
@MYOS1634‌, The three that you’re asking me to ditch are the only ones on my list that are need blind and meet the full need of international students. And if I don’t get into Penn, I’d really want to go to Yale. Then WashU, then Dartmouth, then Amherst in that order. Or do you think they’re very high reaches? I’ll look into the midwestern LACs. Thanks a lot!</p>

7

<p>There are only six colleges or universities in the U.S. that are need blind for international applicants: Amherst College, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Princeton University, and Yale University. </p>

<p>All of the rest will consider your financial need when making a decision regarding whether or not to accept you. </p>

8

<p>@arcadia From this list, I’m considering Yale, Dartmouth and Amherst.
But the actual question is about colleges that are likely to accept an international students with these stats and financial aid. I know the chances are pretty slim but even among need aware colleges, there must be some that are relatively less need-aware for internationals and do give generous FA, could you tell me about some of those?</p>

9

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10

<p>@cstbzksfmgv, you can’t separate generosity from demonstrated need. If the net price calculators indicate that you need X amount of aid to attend, X is the maximum amount of need that you will receive. At colleges that guarantee to meet demonstrated need, you are likely to get X. At others, you will get somewhere between 0 and X.</p>

<p>You say you need 80% need, so let’s say ~$50K a year. If your demonstrated need as calculated by the NPC is less than $50, then need-only colleges won’t work for you.</p>

<p>So you can’t judge generosity until you run the net price calculators and identify how much aid the colleges think you need. If that figure, your estimated family contribution, works for you then need-only colleges are fine. If not, don’t bother.</p>

<p>The next option is to look for colleges that offer merit. These are few and far between and funds are limited. The list posted by @arcadia mentions Carleton, Hope, Miami, Rice, Washington & Lee. Be aware, however, that many of the scholarships listed are single, highly competitive awards.</p>

<p>For need-based aid, you should have a wide list. Many of the most selective colleges are also the most generous. If they don’t guarantee to meet full need, it’s difficult to predict how much of your EFC they will award. You can’t know until you are accepted and get the financial package.</p>

<p>For need and merit you really have to look at the individual colleges’ websites to learn more about their policies toward internationals.</p>

<p>The best strategy for any type of aid, I think, is to seek out colleges that get fewer Asian applicants. As a general statement these are schools that fulfill one or more of the following attributes: Not globally recognized names, not located near or in a city, in the Midwest or South. </p>

<p>The percentage of internationals enrolled in Amherst, Dartmouth and Harvard ranges from 7 to 11%. I don’t know the percentage to internationals accepted as a part of the total number of internationals who apply for Dartmouth or Harvard but for Amherst it is only 7%. The others are most likely lower.</p>

<p>With these kinds of insanely competitive admission rates, it’s impossible to predict your chances.</p>

11

<p>can you plz tell me schools which will accept January testing date and require SAT 1 only. </p>

12

<p>

[quote]
if I don’t get into Penn, I’d really want to go to Yale. Then WashU, then Dartmouth, then Amherst in that order.

[quote]

The problem is that if you don’t get into Penn, the odds of getting into WashU are very very low (need aware), as they are for Yale, Dartmouth, and Amherst (even if they’re not need-aware, because they’re need-blind they receive even more applications and the admission rate is something like 1-2% for internationals.) So if you apply to these five colleges your odds are very low, even if your profile is outstanding. That’s why you need to find other college where your odds would be higher. Remember that there are 3,700 colleges in the US - any university ranked in the top 50 will have a good Honors College, any LAC in the top 60_75 will have strong academics, any regional university in the top 10 or so will be good, too. While their atmosphere will be different, you can look for fit at all of those.</p>

13

<p>For an applicant without a clear hook (international award in debate, such as at WSDC, for instance), you have far too many “big” schools on your list. You can definitely get into some schools in the US, but not with this approach (it’s too risky). The “general” approach that I have developed is something that all “good” international applicants, without a serious hook or a serious hook + academic flaws, should look at. By limiting yourself to need-blind or highly sought after institutions, you are shortchanging yourself. The main takeaway is that any liberal arts college that promises to meet need of internationals is worth a look, and that some LACs are better bets than others. If I were you, I’d look into schools like Dickinson, Franklin & Marshall, Vassar, Sarah Lawrence (it meets need of some internationals sometimes), Macalester, Hamilton, Bates, Lafayette, etc. These schools are still very difficult to get into, but not as difficult as Yale, of course.</p>

14

<p>Are you saying you can pay 12k a year for a 60k college? I don’t think the need based numbers are going to work like that for you. You don’t tell them how much you want, they tell you what you will get. If your family has 80k income you may be asked to pay 20 to 30k. Colleges expect money to come from the family first from savings, current income and borrowing.</p>

15

<p>@MYOS1634, @International95‌ - Thank you for all the amazing advice! I’m probably going to ditch Amherst, Northwestern and UChicago and add others. Strongly considering Macalaster now.
So far it’s Yale, Dartmouth, Babson, WashU, Vanderbilt, Swarthmore, Middlebury and Macalaster. Do you think this is reasonable? Which others should I add?
@BrownParent- The max I’ll be able to pay is 12k (income, savings etc. all added up). Even though my family income seems kind of high compared to other internationals but my parents’ ability to pay isn’t very strong since they’ll be supporting 3 university students at the same time.</p>

16

<p>They will make some adjustments for other children in college, but only each year those other students are attending.I hope you have plan A for your home country and this is just plan B for if you get lucky. You need a full ride. So you should be applying to colleges that might give you a full ride. Here are some schools you will be guaranteed for:
<a href=“http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/”>http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Others you try where you are in the very top of the pool of applicants where those colleges give large merit aid.</p>

17

<p>Yeah yeah, definitely! There are a few good colleges here too and I’ll be applying to those regardless.
I’ll look into these as well. Thanks a lot @BrownParent!</p>

18

<p>The deadline for Alabama is Dec 15 right?</p>

19

<p>Yes - but be aware that now they require all international transcripts to be evaluated by an outside agency… which means that unless you have about $500 to rush the process and courrier the results, it’s too late. :s</p>

20

<p>@cstbzksfmgv, Have you run the net price calculators for the need only schools on your list?</p>

<p>The maximum aid that Yale, Dartmouth, Swarthmore, Middlebury will grant is the estimated family contribution indicated by the net price calculator. At Swarthmore and Middlebury you may get considerably less. </p>

<p>If the EFC doesn’t work for you, you need to find more schools that are merit based. (See my post #9.)</p>