<p>You should do well on the Literature exam. The ACT Reading was the death of me (I scored in the mid- to high-twenties each time, all of which were by far my lowest scores) yet when I took the Lit subject test – cold, might I add, and before I had ever taken an SAT I; I had no idea that incorrect answers counted against you, so I answered every question – and still ended up in the middle 600’s, not a good score or one that I submitted but not horrible given the circumstances, despite the fits that ACT Reading gave me. </p>
<p>As far as Chem goes, I’m not sure how in depth your Honors Chem class went (unless AP Chem was one of the classes you did take already, in which case ignore everything that follows in this paragraph), but you might be lacking the tools necessary to do well on that exam – I certainly was after only taking first year. I ended up taking the exam a month or two into my AP Chem class, and it took a week of studying for an hour or more each day with my AP Chem teacher just to fill the gaps left by 1st year Chem and AP to that point. I’d advise taking a peek at a practice exam from a friend’s SAT II Chemistry review book to see if your knowledge is there. If not, you might be better off taking Biology – I’ve heard it’s the easier of the two exams.</p>
<p>My honors Chem class was pretty in-depth, I think, but I haven’t taken AP Chem and I’m not planning to (AP Physics for me). Technically I did better in Chem than I did in Bio, but probably only because I never studied for a single test in the latter (or for any classes that year). I’m wondering which of the two Bio SAT IIs is easier; I’m guessing it’s the Ecology one, but I’m not sure.</p>
<p>I took a peek at my review book when I got home, so the following will be able to give you an idea of how prepared you are for Chem.</p>
<p>The exam will cover Equilibrium constants, inter- and intra-molecular forces (LDF forces, network solids, partial polarities, etc.), phase diagrams, Gibbs Free Energy (entropy, enthalpy, etc.), among other more basic topics to include stoichiometry, some kinetics, bonding, etc. </p>
<p>If you’ve covered those topics in your first year Chem class, then I am very envious (;D) and you should have absolutely no problem with the Chem exam. If not, then you might consider taking Bio before you have a go at Chemistry. Then again, it all depends on your personal preference – I’m taking it on what I’ve been told by others that Bio is easier than Chem, as I never bothered with Bio – so it would benefit you to take a look at a practice exam for each before you make your decision.</p>
<p>I really doubt that Ivies would even consider SATs instead of AP. Besides, the SATs are easier than AP (perhaps with the exception of languages) and they dont have a free response section. But Ivies look at your scores in context of your available opportunities (I only had 2 AP scores but my school didn’t offer any AP classes). Say, if your school had 15 AP classes, then you’re in trouble. You’d have to answer what you did those years when you could do pre-reqs. If your school had that many, you could have done at least 5 or 6 right? Also, AP exams measure mastery of the material at the collegiate level so you didn’t need to have had the AP class to take them. So you could have been self studying them/</p>
<p>ptontgier16, my school technically does offer a lot of APs (yes, at least 15), but see the first post on this page to see why I haven’t taken them. I DID try self-studying a couple APs in addition to ones I was in classes for, but not until March, so I did not do well on them.</p>
<p>Does it matter that one of the SAT IIs I’m taking <em>is</em> a language one? Also, I don’t think they’re that much easier… it’s just that the top students tend to have both.</p>
<p>Also, would it help to list self-studying for APs as senior-year plans, provided that I was being honest?</p>
<p>I see. Well, if you’re taking five this year and already have two (and they’re 5s?), I think you should be fine. They will have your transcript, so those classes at least will be listed on there. But I still don’t think that they would consider SATs instead of AP. I’ve read that they don’t look at any but your top two anyway. At Princeton (the only Ivy I’ve become really familiar with for obvious reasons), they won’t use your SAT II’s for placement into anything except for the languages. Therefore, I deduced that they don’t weigh those as importantly as AP scores. Since you’ve taken the AP, you’ll know that the AP is more intensive and involved. For instance, the SAT II Chemistry problems were much simpler than the AP though the AP curve was higher. The AP also has the free response section which measures your critical thinking level in a specific subject area. Instead of “looking for” the right answer that’s printed in front of you, you have to come up with it from scratch. You don’t get that on the SAT II. However, for the special case of Spanish, Princeton accepts either a 5 on the AP Spanish or 760 on the SAT II to fulfill its language requirement.
Finally, I don’t know if it helped (to this day, I still don’t know why I was accepted), but I listed self-studying AP Chem on my CommonApp because Chem is something I was strong in and I wanted to make the point of showing them I really was passionate about it on top of other activities related to Chem. But it couldn’t hurt unless you started rambling in that section…</p>
<p>Does Princeton’s policy on Spanish extend to other languages?</p>
<p>Oh, and where’d you list your blurb about AP Chem in the Common App?</p>
<p>I don’t know about other languages because I haven’t looked at them. I’m sure you can dig around the website and find it on the department’s site. </p>
<p>I listed it under extracurricular activities.</p>
<p>I’m not planning to apply to Princeton at the moment; I was (and am) just trying to get a feel for how much of a difference SAT IIs really make. Obviously, I wish I had six or seven APs to show colleges, because that is probably better than having six or seven SAT IIs, but as I don’t have that luxury (which I don’t feel is principally my fault, for reasons stated earlier), my only option is to compensate however I can.</p>
<p>Is there any way you think I can make sure my counselor mentions what I have here (provided she sees it the same way) about reasons why I don’t have a lot of APs? I don’t want to keep her from doing her job or try to coerce her into doing something unethical, but I also don’t want adcoms to think I come from an average high school whose honors classes are far below the level of its APs, that offers a lot of APs with no real prerequisites or other barriers for taking them.</p>
<p>Again, you’re assuming adcoms don’t now these things about various hs (you’re talking Ivies, not some rural outpost college) and forgetting that, at a minimum, there is a school profile all GCs are expected to send. These are documents produced in advance, approved by the right school folks and the identical report is sent for each kid from the hs, to any colleges they apply to. They describe the hs requirements, expectations, variety, limits, usually the hs ranking, EC activities, community demographics and more. </p>
<p>You’re also suggesting you do not have a relationship established wth the GC. You should see if he/she has hours this summer, plus see if you can get a copy of the school profile. The better they know you and like you, the better their sales pitch. That is not coercing or offending- it’s using the relationship as wisely as you can. How else are they suppposed to write about you? I’m gathering you have never seen a GC LoR- you want the glowing report, not the “I don’t know him but I hear he’s…”</p>
<p>Make sure at least one of your recs is from a math-sci teacher. If you scored high in AP physics, that teacher is the logical choice. Make sure that teacher knows you and respects your work.</p>
<p>And, do not underestimate the meaning of “holistic review.” Pton used to publicize how many vals it accepted and it sat around 50%, iirc. Brown has the data online- 19% of vals accepted. Does that tell anything?</p>
<p>This is a hurdle you have to get past, to empower yourself for these schools. Best of luck.</p>
<p>As I said the first time, while I am no expert on Ivy League admissions policies, I highly doubt that they will even look at more than your top two SAT II scores. It simply isn’t practical. Since nobody else submits more than three or four SAT II scores, they wouldn’t be able to compare. What would they do? Compare your SAT II’s to AP’s? They know AP’s are harder and that’s about it. They’d be comparing apples to oranges. </p>
<p>You really do need to have a sit-down discussion with your guidance counselor. Do you attend a big school? If you do, this might be harder but discuss with him/her exactly what you’ve been asking us. Tell him/her your fears and the counselor will likely remember this if the college calls for information or in his/her letter to the college. You can’t get anywhere without having a good relationship with your counselor. </p>
<p>@lookingforward - those statistics are somewhat skewed. The varying strengths and difficulty of high schools (public vs private, ranking system, multiple valedictorians, top 20 vs inner city public, etc.) makes it difficult to evaluate someone’s application just based on valedictorian status alone. For instance, a valedictorian at a small school that has a reputation for grade inflation would not be viewed in the same light as somebody in the top 10 at a big public high school reputed to be tough. And from those big public schools, there can only be several valedictorians while many would be qualified for Ivy League acceptance. You don’t have to be a valedictorian to be admitted, but if you’re from a grade inflated high school and you’re not valedictorian, you better have a good explanation.</p>
<p>Pton, I agree, but it’s just an example to show how holistic can tip you or not, even with val rank. It’s critical to show both academic strengths/potential and the rest of the story- the personal qualities adcoms need to see. Many tippy top kids come across as cookie-cutter or uninspired (same old hs clubs) or they’ve done lots of things, but it’s basically show up and have fun, not true leadership or impact. Or they write essays that show limits in their maturity and perspective. Or worse. And, their LoRs can be incredibly lackluster. Kids at inflation hs are expected to take on challenges, perform well, back it up with solid standardized scores and LoRs, and then held to the same holistic expectations. </p>
<p>And, plenty of kids apply and get admitted with zero or few APs. Again, it’s the whole. Most of those are from schools that don’t offer them, by design, or only offer one or two. </p>
<p>So, OP, aiming to squeeze in more S2’s, concerned about who tells the adcoms he had reasons for not taking more APs, etc, is seeming to forget other major components. In a competitive hs, he has to somehow shine, figure out what his shine is. I’d bet he won’t be the only applicant to Ivies from his hs. Even explaining his predicament can be risky. </p>
<p>Btw, there’s a limit on the academics page, 8 spaces, but fill it with S2’s and they’ll see them.</p>
<p>lookingforward, you make a good point about SAT IIs at the end of your most recent post. I mean, it isn’t as though I haven’t read both of your posts (and ptontiger16’s) since I last viewed this thread, but your point is one that’s true but that I’d forgotten when starting this thread. Indeed, when I took my first post-AP-results look at the Common App, I knew that I would have six spaces to fill up as well as I could. Obviously, taking six SAT IIs may not be necessary, but taking the minimum two doesn’t seem like a good idea either. Basically, getting into the second of the two columns (four tests each) seems necessary to me.</p>
<p>You two both have good points about my GC having responsibilities and me having them with regards to her. How do you think I should phrase my reason for wanting to have a meeting with her? Or can it really just be as simple as, “College application time is coming around and there are a few things about me I’d like you to include in your rec”? My guess is that it shouldn’t be so blunt, but, as she has more than a hundred students to cover, none of us has a great relationship with her.</p>
<p>lookingforward, I’m not forgetting the other major components. I will shine in other ways, mainly relating to my clubs and personal activities. And, you’re right, I won’t be the only applicant to Ivies; every year, out of a class of about 850, about 10-20 end up at Ivies, and there are probably a few more who get in but don’t go. I know, though, that I stand out in different ways. I know that my chances are slim (as everyone’s are); I just don’t want having few AP scores to show to be what pushes me over the edge into the rejection pool.</p>
<p>Then how is everybody else in your class on APs? Having no APs is fine as long as your school doesn’t offer them (mine didn’t). But when there are other applicants from your school having way more APs than you, wouldn’t that look bad even to you? If you’re all in the same situation, then you have nothing to worry about. </p>
<p>As for meeting with your counselor, I believe that everybody meets with their counselor during college application season to discuss those things with him/her. Just schedule your appointment to discuss your college application, voice your concerns about the lack of AP and see what she says. </p>
<p>Bottom line: I see two possible scenarios here: 1) Your classmates have significantly more AP classes than you. In this case, you’re going to have to explain how, since you told us that because of pre-reqs, it was nearly impossible to take many AP classes. 2) Your classmates are in the same situation. Then you’re all in the same boat and when your school profile and all of your applications come up, the adcoms will most likely see that and look into it.</p>
<p>It’s not true that everyone else in my class is on APs. My school HAS about 15-20, but due to the reasons stated earlier, it’s difficult for ANYONE to get into more than a few of them unless they’re in the specified program/fulfill the specified requirements for each one. This is because there aren’t a lot of students who have a developed interest in computer science AND were designated as exceptionally strong in math in middle school AND were designated likewise in history in freshman year or so AND are in the music program AND… you know what I’m saying? Most students on the honors/AP track like me have taken about two to four APs so far, but most (of the relatively few) people who have taken more than two or three have had to sacrifice prerequisites of other APs for that, and I’ve already taken such prerequisites. Like, I know a guy who took AP Chem as a junior but hasn’t taken honors Physics yet. When I was planning my classes, I wasn’t really thinking of how many APs I’d have by the time I had to send out my college applications; I was thinking of how many difficult classes (APs and the more difficult honors ones) I’d have in total. I don’t think of myself as a weaker student than my peers, just as one who planned differently than SOME of them did (and it shows; I still have better standardized test scores than most of them and similar grades). What I’m worried about is how she’ll capture this issue with my APs in her recommendation (assuming she even cares).</p>
<p>Scenario 3) they have more APs, better rank, but you pull off an app that plays to your strengths- doesn’t focus on weaknesses.</p>