<p>Also, since KG, my S has been in a highly diverse school district with high (scholastically) striving kids (almost a mini UN!); as far as “applying against the grain”, I am wondering how he will handle colleges that have low diversity. Toronto, Mcgill, Michigan & other private colleges such as USC (with financial aid) might be affordable, yet have high academic quality and are culturally diverse. </p>
<p>Another approach may be to apply to universities that offer free ride to students who are National Merit finalists; this is on the assumption that my S will hopefully be named one. Alas, the nation’s top 25 colleges do not offer much (to National merit finalists) in terms of free tuition / ride since most members of their applicant pool have high profiles (scores/GPA/EC/Leadership,… etc) to begin with. </p>
<p>BTW, we are trying to conserve cash for my S’s potential expenses involved, should he go for PG education, plus an UG education for a 2nd child in 4.5 years, and over own retirement.</p>
<p>Coupled with the above is the increasing likelihood that in a global employment setting, our kids will likely be competing against other smart kids who may have had their UG education subsidized by their country and may /can be hired at cheaper wages. In other words, ROI may turn negative beyond a certain investment in UG education.</p>
<p>'this is on the assumption that my S will hopefully be named one".</p>
<p>what are your sons PSAT scores again? And are they higher than the cutoff for you state? If they are, AND if your son’s SAT scores are in line with his PSAT scores [ add a zero to get an idea of what he needs] or higher AND he maintains a high GPA, and does all the paperwork required by NMSF in the fall of his SR, including the essay, then he WILL advance to NMF status.[ 15 000 of 16000 advance each year- those that don’t didn’t take the SAT or do the required paperwork or essay or seriously messed up their grades or did something else so they did not get a letter of recommendation from their GC.]</p>
<p>In general, HS kids in MI are not aware of the fact that PSAT score is an important criterion in order to be named a National Merit semi finalist. Many choose not to take the test. In Michigan, as in many other states, Plan/ACT is mandatory, not PSAT / SAT.</p>
<p>Great! so you can most likely relax about qualifying for NM scholarships and narrow down your search for colleges that offer merit scholarships. Unless he doesn’t take the SAT, which I’m sure you won’t let happen, or bombs it, which is unlikely with a little preparation [do a CC search for the Xiggi method] , and he continues to maintain his grades, then he’s good as gold for NMSF.</p>
<p>My D is an NMF this year and got a fantastic full ride scholarship from University of Alabama. SMU and U of Oklahoma have been in contact the past week saying she could still apply there and get a full scholarship. These schools might not be the best fit for your child, but know that becoming an NMF can offer some great financial safeties.</p>
<p>Thanks Rob D & sandrasccr. Keilaxandra’s list is very useful; planning on using it to seek appropriate schools. Somewhere I read that WashU admission is extremely selective this year; sort of hesitating to add it to the list.</p>
<p>i would still consider it, my stats are like your sons and i want to go into medicine as well and it was recommended to me by a college counselor. it also has some really good merit for a few applicants</p>
<p>WUSTL was on Ds list & she started the app, but we were both uncomfortable with their heavy handed marketing combined with their low acceptance rate; it was 17% in 2009. We felt that they were trying to game the USNWR rankings. They had a great program for her, but she ended up not deciding to apply. So far no regrets with that decision.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think it might be a good fit for D2 and by all accounts it is one of the nicest campuses to set foot on; their library is amazing.</p>
<p>All of the selective colleges/universites are culturally diverse. The percentage may vary somewhat but cultural/racial/ethnic/religious/economic diversity is an important objective that they all manage to achieve.</p>
<p>The difference between schools in what are perceived by Asians as desireable northeast urban lor westcoast locations and less desirable rural or Southern/Midwestern locations is that those in the former group are overwhelmed by Asian (north and south) applicants and those in the latter group have to try harder to get high achieving Asians to apply and then, if accepted, to matriculate. </p>
<p>Few schools release figures on the ethnic breakdown of their applicants so it’s difficult to substantiate this theory, but my experience among my son’s friends at an Asian international school is that these kids gravitate toward California and Eastcoast cities. Once you get out of that “box” there is less completition and more incentive.</p>
<p>Has any one mentioned Emory? The Emory scholars program is one of the best.</p>
<p>Excellent ideas. Emory is a great university; wish it offered engineering. I think in order to major in eng, one needs to pursue a joint program with Georgia Tech, adding another year of college expenses. Don’t know of any Midwestern / Southern universities ( which offer a full slate of majors, including eng.) that offers merit scholarship to incoming (south) Asian American freshman. Any suggestion will be welcome. </p>
<p>Wish we had some idea about Xiggi method for SAT; will have my S use this method, should he need to take SAT next time.</p>
<p>My S may need to apply to 10 -15 BS/MD programs so as to land at least 1 offer of admission. </p>
<p>In view of high uncertainty in obtaining scholarship / grants all over (due to budget constraints), wondering how many schools should my S be planning on applying (for regular BS programs), in addition to BS/MD?</p>
<p>Trinity, you are giving mixed messages -engineering is a must? yet you are looking for BS/MD programs as well? Maybe you are trying to cover too many bases in the attempt to find both. Why the urgency to get him accepted into a MD program so soon? If your Son is not ABSOLUTELY SURE that he wants to be a DR, [ and your bringing up engineering tell me he is not] then why would he consider applying to dual degree BS/MD programs? As for the search for $$, the lower in “ranking” he goes, the greater the chance of his landing a big merit scholarship, at a less prestigious college. If he has the stats to be considered for a full ride or full tuition scholarship in an honors program, then he will be MUCH better positioned, when applying to Med schools in 4 more years time, should he then decide that is the path the he wants to take. Med schools care about GPA and MCAT scores first, and where the student went to college second. Take a look at what Curms’ D achieved- she was accepted at Yale UG , but decided to enroll at Rhodes on a full ride scholarship instead, did incredibly well there and was once again accepted at Yale, this time by their med school.</p>
<p>In these economically turbulent times, I think we have to strike a balance between learning for learning sake and employability, especially when he will have to start paying back his debts after (college) graduation. </p>
<p>Since you are a Michigan resident, I would highly recommend U Michigan. My son is OOS in his junior year. They have very strong science and math programs. Since you’re in-state, I doubt you would find a better bargain!</p>
<p>I don’t recommend fitting the choice of major around what polls indicate are hot jobs. Your son is very bright, he’ll be okay. There are so many schools at which he could be a math or science major. Pushing him to choose a BS/MD or engineering program, both very intense tracks, seems premature.</p>
<p>The University of Cincinnati also has a dual BS/MD program and I didn’t know if you had considered it at all. UC’s college of medicine is very well regarded in Ohio and it looks like you have considered the other BS/MD programs in Ohio so I suspect that you have looked at Cincinnati also. So sorry if you already have this information.</p>
<p>I thought that Cincinnati was more ethnically diverse than some of the other BS/MD programs that you have looked at. They do offer a National Merit Scholarship but it looks like you have to pay a out of state surcharge. This seems to be new, I thought that they used to waive out of state charges but I could be wrong. Cincinnati also has an engineering program if he is interested in that but it looks like he will either pursue a BS/MD program or a degree in engineering.</p>
<p>I have heard that medical schools lean towards accepting residents of their state over out of state applicants. Is that correct? And does that affect BS/MD programs, that it would be hard for a Michigan resident to be accepted into an Ohio BS/MD program. It seems to me that Ohio has more BS/MD programs than Ohio, if you are listing all programs in Michigan, only Wayne State has a BS/MD program? And Ohio has Toledo, Cincinnati, NEUOCOM, Ohio State and Case Western? Plus Miami?</p>
<p>I thought that usually in the first 2-3 semesters (or 3-4 quarters) the college students take core science, math, English and other requirements, after which they need to declare a major. By selecting universities that offer ChemE / BME, my S will have the option of selecting a major of his choice (eng/sciences/math,…,). As far as some of the BS/ MD programs, a potential admitted candidate is not bound to attend med school after completing the BS; As MiamiDAP indicated, it provides a peace of mind of having the option available. </p>
<p>Cincinnati has a good BS/MD program; if my S chooses engineering, then it is a 9 year program. The director of BS/MD admissions was not welcoming of my questions with respect to admissions and other inquiries. As a matter of fact, Cincinnati U clearly indicates on their web site in big bold red letters “Make sure that YOU (not mom, dad, teacher, guidance counselor, etc.) follow up with questions regarding the application and interview process” (Ref: [Home](<a href=“http://www.med.uc.edu/hs2md/]Home[/url]”>http://www.med.uc.edu/hs2md/)</a>). I thought the director’s demeanor was was quite arrogant; guess they can afford to be so.</p>
<p>In actuality, to major in engineering, you usually have to apply directly to the college of engineering during your senior year in high school. You can start in engineering and then switch to, say, chemistry but not always easily the other way. The core science and math may be more precisely defined for engineering majors. At some schools, you even have to define which branch of engineering you are applying to.</p>
<p>It might not be too difficult to switch out of engineering into one of the physical sciences or math–in fact, many students do leave engineering for other fields. It might involve an extra semester of course work, though, if one is not careful. However, it is not easy to switch from a science/math field into engineering at most schools without adding extra semesters. Many engineering programs have very particular engineering courses required during freshman year. Furthermore, the curriculum may not require as many humanities or social science courses, leaving a student a bit short in those fields.</p>
<p>A lot of this is university-specific. Some schools have very different rules for engineering vs arts/sciences while others are more similar. At some universities engineering may be a good deal more liberal about applying AP credits toward humanities and social science requirements than the A and S division. In that case, if a student uses those credits to bypass hum/ss courses and then switches to an A and S field, s/he will be behind. (This is the case at my son’s university.)</p>
<p>In any case, Denise is correct that most universities will require an application directly to the engineering school.</p>
<p>Trinity7, so sad to hear that Cincinnati was not welcoming. I only dealt with the engineering program but found them to be one of the most welcoming of all the colleges that I toured with my kids. I did see what your quoted on the website. Maybe they feel that BS/MD candidates must be more mature than your normal prospective college student. Or maybe the director of the program is just a jerk.</p>
<p>Just so you know Toledo also has a required co-op component in their engineering department so it would also be a 9 year program if he picked the engineering.</p>
<p>At my S’s school, the Material Science, BME’s and ChemE’s all take the same classes freshman year. He could pick any one of those majors without any trouble. At my D’s school all the engineering majors take the same classes freshman year and then pick their discipline. It is really school specific. Both applied directly to the college of engineering.</p>