Approaching a professor/teacher, asking for a lesson, and other queries

College Majors Music Major
1

I have a couple more questions as we are sorting through this - dh and I are coming to grips with the reality that two of our kids appear to be heading down this path despite our attempts to lure them in other directions (I know, I know…). :slight_smile:

We’re now planning a road trip late this fall to visit some of the schools that are on dd’s list. While we are at it, I figure we should visit a couple schools in the general area that are on ds’s list, or at least, worth visiting. He’s finishing up 8th grade and currently “aiming for Juilliard,” so I figure the more visits to music schools of all types we can squeeze in for him, the better (so he can have plenty of time to weigh his options… although he’s going to have to wait a few years for that Juilliard visit…).

  1. From what I have read, the student is the one to email the professor to request a meeting/visit and a lesson. Also, at that time, the student should inquire about any additional recitals, classes, master-classes, etc that she may be allowed to sit in on during her visit. Then she should contact admissions and set up a routine tour of the school and visit with the financial aid department, etc. Please tell me if I’m missing a crucial step.

  2. I’m concerned that ds would be brushed aside if HE were the one to approach a professor. Is this a silly concern on my part? HE would be 100% okay making the contact and emailing the teacher himself, but should he withhold his age/grade unless specifically asked? Would a professor even bother with a newly-minted 9th grader (albeit a very serious 9th grader)?

  3. What do they DO at these meet-n-greet lessons? Will the professor tell them, specifically, what to bring TO the lesson? Or do they just bring whatever it is they are currently working on? Or practice books?

  4. Through ds’s youth orchestra, the other trumpet players have off-handedly mentioned having one-time and/or irregular lessons with other teachers (other than their regular teacher). I am unclear on whether they had these lessons “just because” or if they were actually shopping around for a new trumpet teacher at the time…

DS loves his current trumpet teacher, but has mentioned that he would like to have a couple of lessons with a couple of the professors he’s met, or the man who led the brass ensemble he was part of last year… Is this something we can DO without giving the impression that we are “shopping around” for a new teacher (it’s a relatively small community)?

DS (a very analytical thinker and long-term planner) says he figures each one of these guys will probably give him a gem of knowledge that another person wouldn’t have (or, at least, wouldn’t phrase in quite the same way…) and he’d like to pick their brains. He says he would take in a piece he’s currently working on as well as a piece he’s “mostly mastered” to get each of their input & to become familiar with different teaching styles and methods…

Good idea? Bad idea?

  1. DS sat in on one publicly-announced master class (visiting professional) last year. Is it in poor taste for him to email that university’s professor (a few weeks into the fall semester) and ask if it’s possible if he comes to sit in and listen to some of their regularly-scheduled studio master classes?
2

If your child is only entering 9nth grade I would take some BIG DEEP BREATHS. The distance between a 9nth grader and an entering senior is similar to the distance between a 3 year old and a 5 year old. It is wonderful that he seems focused on attending conservatory and being serious about music. But I would make sure to be following your child’s lead and not get to twisted out of shape about where your child might land just yet. During the next few years a lot of growth will occur and your child will start to sort out what he wants and what will work for him. Juilliard might be his goal now but it might not be the right place in 3 years. Any lessons your son has now might inspire or shape him but at the same time they will make little difference in admission 3 years from now.

It is great to have more than one teacher or to move on to another teacher. Teachers understand that. My own son ended up having two different private teachers by his senior year. They both knew that he was studying with the other teacher and it worked because they both were focused on different music and different skill sets.

Make sure to be flexible. Your son is focused on conservatory now. That is great. But things do change. Give him space to be a kid/teen. Focus on raising a whole-child and not a star musician. Have fun with music and make sure that it remains fun and enjoyable for him and not some big competitive thing he has to WIN. Plenty of talented musicians have been destroyed by this feeling that they have to achieve and in the process loose their love and passion for music.

3

Arranging a lesson with a prof for a 9th grader seems a bit much unless you are considering hiring the prof to teach your son during his high school years. Penelope Trunk is a blogger who moved with her middle-school- age son to study with a cello instructor at Swarthmore. Doesn’t sound like you are interested in that. Emailing to say he will be in the area and is hoping to attend a performance or visit a class seems more appropriate.

4

Is your daughter applying to conservatories/music schools? Is your son going along for the ride? I would keep the focus on the kid who is applying now. Some if us have fond memories of these trips to schools- it may be a family trip but often going alone with the one who is applying is a great experience to remember.

Your son’s focus on Juilliard is similar to some of the posts on the Ivy League forum, where young people are fixed on getting into Harvard. At your son’s age, it may not be constructive to focus on schools at all, yet, let alone one very competitive ones.

I would find teachers who emphasize developing talent and skill for the right reasons, with admissions a by-product, not the main goal. Inner motivation is important in music and external motivation can get results in the short term, but can be counterproductive in the long term. Does that make sense?

If he insists on thinking about post-secondary schools, at least make sure he knows about the wide range of excellent conservatories and schools of music. If you need help with that, the forum is here :slight_smile: There is a book about Juiliard- “Nothing but the Best” which is a bit dated and distorted but an interesting read.

I think it is way too early for him to meet with professors or have trial lessons at schools. One great way to work with other teachers is through summer programs- and often he will meet teachers from various schools there as well. Music performance activities outside of school can be enriching, as can theory and history classes. Is there a conservatory prep near you?

Taking a few lesson or even many from a second teacher may indeed add to his technique and musicality. And to his enjoyment of learning. Just avoid confusion because everyone teaches a little differently. As things progress, if his current teacher is no longer the best fit, don’t let loyalty or fear prevent a switch.

Lots can change in the next few years. It is good to keep all options open and not talk as if the path is now a given. And Stacjip is right: pressure, whether from your son himself or from you or from a teacher, can affect the love of music that should be the main motivation. We avoided using the word "talent’ in our house, a word that conveys pressure from the start :slight_smile:

5

Are there specialized trumpet summer camps or band/orchestra camps with professors that your son could study with? This is a good way to spend time with potential profs in a setting where they are expecting young players. I agree with you that most college profs would not be expecting to give a trial lesson to an 8th grade wind player looking for a college. I would advise waiting until closer to college age to meet with profs so that it is easier to determine exactly what his needs are in a teacher for his college years. There will be lots of development in his playing in the next several years Remember also that profs do change schools, die, leave teaching for orchestral positions, etc. What your DS experiences as a young adolescent may not even exist when he’s ready for college. .

I would not ask if your DS can sit in on studio classes unless you already have a close relationship with this professor. Students pay for this studio class in their tuition and it is part of the college experience - unlike a public master class. As you note, there are occasions when prospective students are invited to attend a studio class or college class, but this is generally in the context of recruitment or discernment on the part of the soon to be admitted college-age student. (There are exceptions - one of my kids had a studio class that frequently included performances by a young international soloist who happened to be a pre-college student of the instructor. Unusual situation in other regards as well.)

Without knowing all the circumstances, it’s hard to respond to the questions about visiting other instructors. Some instructors explicitly forbid this finding that there is confusion between different approaches, priorities, etc. If your son is making progress with the current teacher, I would not search out anything more now. A summer camp where he would have multiple lessons with a good teacher could be appropriate - especially if the current teacher can recommend someone/someplace. If I, as the musician/teacher that I am, heard that one of my students was seeking out other teachers for lessons, I would certainly assume that the family was shopping! If this is not your intent, I would discuss the question with your DS’s current teacher and trust his advice.

6

Looks like #2, #3 and #4 were all under construction at the same time! Interesting how very similar the perspectives are.

7

Thanks for the input!

Ugh- my entire post didn’t post for some reason!! And I am out of time to type it again -

Short version:

We’ll just do walk about tours with ds on this trip. Easy enough! :slight_smile:

Also- the point of visits now is so that he broadens his perspective. I want him to see that there are a lot of good options he will be able to consider!

Finally- any pressure is 100% coming from him, I assure you! :smiley: If he changes his mind later, I will be relieved! :slight_smile: He doesn’t have set practice time, but spends a couple hours+ Practicing - entirely his own decision. I ensure that he continues to excel at his studies and he has other hobbies that he spends quite a bit of time with as well. The music is just part of his own day and he structures it at his own will.

8

I had another thought. It does sound as is your son is very serious about pursuing music, at least for the present. Does he currently study piano as a secondary instrument? Or have some on-line or pre-college level theory instruction? Both would be very useful backgrounds to have on entering college. Offering this to him might demonstrate your support without placing him in positions that he isn’t quite ready for at his current age.

9

Your last post was helpful in getting the picture :slight_smile: Chances are that a family trip while your daughter looks at schools, will help your son broaden his choices.

Does he have a music community that is challenging and supportive? Practicing two hours a day is great. Does he have peers who are doing the same?

Summer programs are short term communities but can be helpful at this age in so many ways. Playing in a youth orchestra, or attending conservatory prep, can also provide a community of peers with similar drive and motivation.

Piano and theory background can be helpful if he has the time, but it can wait as well…

Sounds like you are doing a great job parenting a kid with an inner drive, who is still doing other things as well. He will evolve in whatever way he wants to evolve, over time and I am sure you will be there to help. I always picture parenting a kid like this as surfing, surfing their waves by finding whatever sustains the ride.

Most parents have to get in there and encourage. In this case, you almost have to slow him down, at least with the Juilliard thing. I think your strategy to show him other choices is smart and caring- just don’t think he needs the sample lessons as yet!

10

Just another comment/perspective…and of course I don’t know you or your S…so my comment is general.

The environment for our kids/young adults is very competitive these days particularly around college admissions. I think that it is hard for anyone to distinguish what is truly coming from your student and what is coming from the environment. It’s probably a bit of both. That’s where the steady hand of a parent can come in to guide the student in doing age appropriate activities…like getting a sense of college campuses during a sibling’s visit or attending a performance at a school. As said above, some parents have to kick their horses and some have to pull back on the reigns. I had a child with a singular view of success…which I had to battle for many years. Now she’s an adult and on occasion will say “You were right mom.” It’s part of maturity to see things in multiple ways.

In classical music, there is a lot of protocol…which suggests “knowing your place”. If you’re going to be performing together, you had better know your place. He’s a bit young for one-on-ones with a professor (unless you find one who does this routinely…but idk it does seem a bit rushed). @Momofadult gives some good ideas to continue to encourage his music development at the right pace.

11

DS will be taking music theory alongside his sister this year.

He does not, as of now, play piano. To prep for music theory, DD (a different DD) is going to show him the basics over the summer and we bought him a nice keyboard for his room so he can work with that. Right now, he doesn’t want lessons. I will wait through the year and see if he changes his mind about that… He has played other instruments though.

As far as peers… well… he was the only winds-instrument 7th grader in the youth orchestra two years ago (it was his idea to try out). So he does have peers, but the more advanced ones are all 11th and 12th graders (which is likely why he has college on the brain so much. He falls in the middle-ish of our family and has lots of older friends and acquaintances (if you met him, you’d swear he was at least a junior already). So college is frequently a discussion in our house and among his older orchestra friends). He also has some friends nearer his own age who play lots of instruments. They are always arranging their own ensembles and jam sessions, etc. We have a drum setup at our house specifically for that purpose (oh, joy!). He lives, breathes, and eats music right now - but getting him to branch out beyond trumpet-related instruments has never been fully successful. He only finally stopped resisting the inevitability of piano while looking over classes required for a performance degree.

12

One of the reasons I thought of piano now is that he has enough years to take lessons working at a very reasonable pace and gain a lot of skill before college. Even practicing minimally, but regularly, with a good teacher for 4 years, he could be very well prepared to pass out of proficiency exams. It generally doesn’t work to try to force a skill to come quickly later on. He shouldn’t be discouraged if he tries piano and finds it difficult - this true for the vast majority of non-piano majors facing the required classes at college/conservatory.

Your drum set story reminds me of my childhood. I had three cousins who all played drums. One year, the Christmas gift was a drum set. I’ll never forget the expression on my aunt’s face when we visited late that Christmas afternoon. There hadn’t been a moment’s peace all day - one kid jumped off the drum set and another took over! One of those cousins has been a professional musician all her life, now approaching retirement. See what a supportive Mom can do!

13

Oh good, he’s having fun making music :slight_smile:

My kid did piano and theory the last two years of high school in a sort of catch up spirit. She has done fine and is doing doctoral work.

The proficiency exams at auditions are usually for placement purposes, not admission. Generally, placing out isn’t always a concern because each school will have its own way of teaching theory and own sequence of classes, so even those who have been doing theory or piano for some time will often start with the intro classes.

It does sound as if hanging out with older peers may be having an effect on him!!

14

I PM’d you.

15

My daughter is on a similar trajectory in terms of being a wind player with early proficiency. (Different instrument – oboe – but woodwinds and brass have more in common with one another in how they’re taught and the general timeline than either does with strings.) I do think 9th grade is too early to be bothering professors, unless he’s considering graduating early. Mine will be entering 10th grade, and will most likely conduct one conservatory visit next year, with one of her private teacher’s former professors (who teaches at a conservatory where D may apply after 11th grade). Summer programs are very good resources for connecting with potential professors. After this summer, my daughter will have worked with 3 of her top 6 or 8 choices.

For this summer, if Curtis Summerfest is geographically and logistically feasible for you, your son should look into it. The trumpet faculty there looks very good. My impression of the program from the past few years is that it’s still developing and they may be able to accept a late application.

Being around kids who are entering top-level music programs has helped my daughter realize how hard she’s going to need to work to get to where she wants to go. Local youth orchestra programs tend not to be quite as high in caliber as the summer program she’s attended. One thing that she’s realized is that a lot of kids make big gains in 11th and 12th grade, so she really can’t rely on where she currently fits in with others in her age range to know where she’ll be when it’s time to audition for college.

Feel free to PM me if you want to talk geography-specific or institution-specific stuff.

16

Some good advice in the threads. With your S, unless you want to get some kind of assessment where he is, or are thinking of him studying privately with a teacher at a school, it is probably way too early in 8th grade to be doing sample lessons and the like. I think it is great he will get to see the schools his S is visiting and get an idea of the environment and such. One thing to do if you visit schools like Juilliard, while there take a look at student performances, things like recitals and orchestra concerts and chamber concerts are generally free (with Juilliard, the orchestra concerts when they have big name conductors or soloists will have a charge, though it is usually way below what you would pay at a performance at Carnegie Hall or whatever the heck they call the NY Phil home these days:).

As far as teachers go, it is quite common as kids progress for them to switch teachers, especially as kids get serious it is not unlikely a teacher can only take them so far technically and otherwise, and kids usually get a feeling when that happens. Doesn’t mean that is the way someone has to go, some music students have a gem of a teacher who takes them all the way to college level music.

Re taking lessons from other teachers: This is not uncommon, my son over the years has done lessons with a variety of teachers outside his primary one. Sometimes they are substitutes, he had that both at the pre college and college level and they often were really interesting, because he did see different perspectives, plus got exposure to people who were working professionals and knew what was required. One of the reasons in recent years he did the music festivals he did was to be able to study with teachers he might have been interested in teaching with the future. Sometimes this can be tricky because some primary teachers for a variety of reasons (some jealous the kid might leave them, others afraid the other teacher will contradict what they teach, among others) can be sensitive if the kid sees other teachers, so it may be wise either to find out if the teacher has a problem with the kid doing that, or if you know the teacher would have kittens, keeping it on the QT.

17

Thank you so much for the helpful information! Neither dh nor I are music people. So a lot of the questions are just us trying to figure out what’s “normal” and what’s not. If it’s not normal to approach a professor to ask for a lesson (at this phase), then we won’t. Simple as that. lol I just didn’t want every.other.kid. to be doing those things and ds to be left behind simply because we (his clueless parents) weren’t aware that that was a Thing We Should Be Doing. :smiley:

That sort of thing almost happened with the first kid. She went into her ACT prep-free and came out of it with a score in the low 30s. She was like, ummm, no. So we started prep work (just practice taking the actual test itself) and she shot her score into the stratosphere. I learned a lot from that near-miss and try to make sure we’re not dropping the ball for any of the kids on their chosen endeavors. As long as they’re putting in the effort into their interests, we’ll match that effort to get them where they need to be and learn whatever it is we need to learn about the subject.

Talking with him further, it seems he really just wants someone to sit and “talk shop” with more than anything. There is a community orchestra and/or a community jazz orchestra filled with older players that he might be able to fit in next year and that might be a good fit. Those old guys will talk about music for hours without shutting up. :smiley:

I’m jotting down the helpful advice, though! Thanks so much! :slight_smile:

It’s interesting @noviceatoller that you mentioned the possibility of his graduating early. That, actually, WAS on the agenda as a possibility until he started thinking about the potential of music as a profession. He took AP classes in 8th grade, and has a hefty load planned for 9th grade. But, if he wants to do music, he needs the time to prepare for that. So - if he changes his mind on music, we’ll reconsider the option of graduating early… Also makes sense about there being a leap in development between 11th and 12th grade. We’ve noticed that same things among other kids. DS is hoping that will apply to him as well. :smiley:

18

Many kids- not all- tone down the rigor of academics a bit in order to focus on music, especially in the last years of high school. Even for elite schools, this does not necessarily affect admissions chances.

Not sure a community orchestra would be the best place for a student who is ambitious, over the long term, but if he has fun, at this early stage, maybe it’s a good choice. I do think being around talented peers is important, whether year-round or summer or both.

19

That same (ACT-prep) kid wanted to “try out this sport.” A little over a year and a half later, by spring of her senior year, she had multiple full-ride athletic scholarship offers, much to our utter shock and disbelief. All the work she had put into her academics became a secondary concern to the athletic part of her life - scholarships she’d applied for became instantly unimportant. She just finished her first year at a school she loves, majoring in something she had never considered until a year and a half ago, and on a team of girls that she adores. Her first season, she won awards from the Conference, the school, and the team as an outstanding freshman and most supportive teammate. Among girls who’ve been actively doing that sport for years.

Learning about that sport and the NCAA was almost as time consuming as learning about music has been. :wink:

Our family motto is a form of that “Shoot for the moon, because even if you fall short, you’ll still land among the stars” quote. It’s something the first half of our kids have taken to heart in their chosen hobbies and studies… If they choose to do a thing that’s going to take up their precious time, they just automatically start figuring out how to become the best they can be at that activity. lol Does NOT mean they have a need to be “the best” at everything - just “their” best.

But, they are a rather intensely driven bunch of kids. lol DH and I are much more chill - just along for the ride. :wink:

20

The ole “secret teacher”–many swear by them. @noviceatoller, do you have an older daughter who also plays oboe or am I in a time warp?