<p>get a tutor</p>
<p>"when the whole class doesn't understand something"</p>
<p>when does that ever happen? and if you're taking an online class, you really can't expect the whole world to not understand the meterial</p>
<p>Taffyluchia ---> 100 Posts! Congrats!</p>
<p>I'm not talking online classes, I mean you've never had a teacher give a lecture - and the next day its obvious no one understands any of it so the teacher wants to go over it again? If that happens but the AP's anal rules say, as you want them to, exactly how to spend every hour of class, I'd be ****ed and I'll bet the teacher would be even more upset to have her class planned out by the hour by a national beauracracy.</p>
<p>That's why you can ask other students taking the class! You should take the initiative and spend time after school understanding what you are confused by. Not rely on the teacher to explain everything to you.</p>
<p>zpmqxonw, that plan is the polar opposite of the response desired by critics of the advanced placement program. </p>
<p>These critics label certain AP classes as narrow and superficial. Your plan would just hasten the disappearance of APs at certain schools.</p>
<p>Those of you talking about APs saying its past its prime are totally wrong. There is an increasing number of APs offered at schools. A few, rare, elite schools are dropping the APs for another college level course that is not standardized, but can be designed by the school's teacher(s) or administration. This is NOT a general trend.</p>
<p>If you can cram for an AP test, you can cram for a college test.</p>
<p>Ladyinred, abuse is a valid concern, but overall the program is hugely beneficial, giving students rigorous classes where they would otherwise have none. In an article about the dropping the AP tests, at a few select schools, like Crossroads, a teacher praised the program as one with incorruptible standards.</p>
<p>At my school, the best classes are usually the APs. It forces the teacher to teach a satisfactory amount of material. For instance, if my school had AP chem, and I was in it, I would have learned double the amount of material.</p>
<p>How the hell is taking APs conforming? Isnt taking average classes even more conformist, because more people take them? It just sounds like youre complaining because you lost your competitive advantage, now that more people have access to APs.</p>
<p>W/e, all I'm saying is I like how classes are taught at my school; I don't want them standardized so they can be taught by a robot -- you sound like you're looking for an easy way to turn the last gasps of actual learning into an extended cram session.</p>
<p>zpmqxonw -- thanks :D
Ali G -- For some schools, classes are one hour long each and other are 45 minutes each. There's no way they would plan by the hour. Plan by the week, more likely. That way you can go back, but you'll have to catch up eventually.</p>
<p>Yeah, sorry to cause the big uproar. Personally, I think it would be a cool idea but is probably very unlikely. I just hate when teachers "teach to the test" because almost all of my AP teachers have been so concerned about the test that we don't actually learn the subject. When the teachers tell me, "You don't need to know that, it won't be on the test" or "Don't actually learn the subject, just learn how to take the test" it frustrates me so much. </p>
<p>taffyluchia- i saw that you are in Washington too. Do you go to the Lakeside school?</p>
<p>ashernm- You proved my point perfectly when you wrote, "If you can cram for an AP test, you can cram for a college test." We should not be worried about what grade we receive on the test, but rather what we learn from the course. That is what I dislike about the AP classes I have taken, they are so restricted that important parts are skipped over and people that slack off all year end up with 5's because of last minute cramming.</p>
<p>No teacher would teach such a standardized curriculum. Instituting that plan would be paramount to turning factory jobs from skilled into unskilled positions. What is the point of such standardization? The ability to compare grades of students in different schools? Classes at different schools, or even the same school but classes with different teachers can have vastly differing levels of difficulty. This need to compare students is fulfilled by AP & SAT II tests anyway. I repeat, find me any teacher who would approve of it, and/or would think other teachers also approve. Who would want to be the slave of some ethereal corporation?</p>
<p>I am sure most of the "crammers" did not slack off during the year, but just did not study for the test, but worked on class assignments instead.</p>
<p>Edit: How would standardizing the curriculum alleviate the practice of "teaching to the test"? Instead it would be built into the curriculum, because CB would know EXACTLY what you learned, and could therefore give a much more fitting test. In effect, CB would set the curriculum, and align the test with it, so that your curriculum is just preparation for the test.</p>
<p>zpmqxonw -- yeah, my school's in the king county area</p>
<p>W T F is up with this conforming garbage?! I think it's sad that you aren't willing to admit that AP is good. If you have a problem with the AP system, get out of it! If you can't handle it, get out of it! No one is forcing you. Also, if "getting a 5 on the AP is so easy (60%)" why are you complaining, if you're getting college credit? I'd be happy....actually. I agree with ashernm
[quote]
Isnt taking average classes even more conformist, because more people take them?
[/quote]
Again, no one is telling you to take AP, you just feel compelled to take it, which again, is your own deal.</p>
<p>My AP Comp Sci teacher, when he was a student, read the Calculus review book for 6 hours before the exam. That was all the math he learned that year; he got a 3.</p>
<p>...Not exactly a lesson teachers should be teaching their students, but hey! :D</p>
<p>AHhhh. All this flaming! Let me make myself clearer: I'm just saying the trend of "the more # of APs taken is better" just for college admission shouldn't be the reason people take AP classes. I certainly enjoyed my AP studying and I'm pretty confident so far (except music theory, which is another matter). I KNOW nobody forced it on me. I did it b/c I thought I'd enjoy it, and I did, and I'm happy and confident (clear?). I'm enjoying all the positive externalities from my studying, too, such as proving others wrong (that I couldn't handle it) and getting respect. My issue isn't about myself but rather the trend.
And ashernm, I'm certainly did not lose my "competitive advantage." I'm not upset that others are taking more APs; I really don't care how many they've taken. It's the attitude that people are simply saying "take more APs" just because they're APs. (not to mention your biting comments were uncalled for) The conforming part, i meant for those who push themselves, i guess. Yeah, more people aren't taking APs, and it will remain so for quite a while, but for those, lets say, in the top 10% and who are aiming for a "good college," taking more APs is conformity.<br>
I'm sure less people would take statistics, for example, if CB didn't have AP Stats. Another ex: our teacher would've taught us ANOVA and other test statistics in our stats class had we not been pressed for time. Since the AP didn't require the ANOVA test, we never learned it. A class discussion went on in my Honors English class about next year's schedule, and it was amazing how people were comparing "how many APs are you taking next year?" instead of the subject itself. AP classes might be more rigorous than other classes, but can't other non-ap classes have the same rigour?
It all comes down to "playing the game", and AP's are becoming that game.<br>
On a side note, isn't it scary how one institution (CB) is taking over our HS educational system? AP's, SAT's... No kidding some of the elite HS's have gone away from APs (e.g. Phillips Exeter, etc).</p>
<p>"Again, no one is telling you to take AP, you just feel compelled to take it, which again, is your own deal." To get into the top tier colleges, you have to be at a certain level that demainds AP. </p>
<p>And what you said about colleges. AP classes are not comparable to college classes. It does totally depend on the college though. If you go to a top tier college (and for a conservative estimate, think UCLA and up) AP credit does not mean a thing. I know a lot of people at Berekley, my cousin is a freshman, and my mentor graduated with double major and high honors and - </p>
<p>60% is never the curve at berkeley. Take, for example, sophomores and freshmen taking Intro to Business as a prereq to trying to get into the undergrad business program there. The curve is CRAZY. 95% was once a B. These are all people who need to get the top 15 or so grades out of 100+ in order to get into the uber-competitive business program for their last two years. That 60% curve is by NO MEANS emblematic of all colleges. At competitive colleges, the format is not like AP tests.</p>
<p>One thing is that yes, most of the college grades are based on tests, which yes, you can cram for. But when you do that, you risk being a victim of a curve - yes, in colleges curves hurt you - and getting a B, or a C. And for people who are trying to get into competitive law/med/grad bus. schools, that is essential to your app.</p>
<p>And at these schools, you don't get AP credit. The most berkeley will give you is elective credit, or higher standing in certain courses (which Yale does). Elective credit really does nothing for you - my cousin got a 5 on AP Bio, 800 on SAT II Bio M, and still had to take Bio 1 all over again. Because the courses in college are way different than AP courses - which can be taught differently, and are very narrow - limited to "this is on the AP exam" and are by no means taught uniformly across the country.</p>
<p>yes, ETS is the testing monopoly. The FTC should break it up. </p>
<p>Don't standardize AP curriculum. Teaching is so different and so varied, I think standardized tests - all of them - are crap. You can't measure learning ability that way - all it comes down to is cheating ability, or cramming, or memorization technique (don't listen to the stuff your AP history teachers tell you - all the AP Histories ever test can all be memorized) - with standardized tests what will ALWAYS fall short of college exams because they can NEVER cover every important topic. In Chem, US History, and all the APs...there were major parts of the subject that were NEVER tested. </p>
<p>"At my school, the best classes are usually the APs. It forces the teacher to teach a satisfactory amount of material. For instance, if my school had AP chem, and I was in it, I would have learned double the amount of material."</p>
<p>That is never guaranteed. The teacher might be inept. And you might have learned 'double the amount of material' that you are learning now, but that won't measure up to what a college student learns in an entire college course (hence, why my AP Chem class NEVER covered formal charges, b/c it 'wasn't going to be on the exam' but was on the exam...). It's way too narrow. You may argue that well Exeter is not a general trend - but it should be. These people have well over 25% admit to the Ivies, and way more for other upper tier schools - and do it without APs...</p>
<p>I think the most important thing APs do is that they force you into the competitive mindset - so that you don't enjoy LEARNING THE SUBJECT, but rather, because of so much work/pressure/stress you LEARN TO DISLIKE IT. Furthermore, you LEARN HOW TO TAKE THE TEST, rather than LEARNING THE SUBJECT. Seriously. How are AP classes structured? From day 1 in my Chem class: The AP exam has a rxn set question. Do it. AP exam format is bum bum bum. Familiarize yourself with it. </p>
<p>Less emphasis is placed on the subject than the test and what its directions are, what is required, what hasn't been tested for a while and now must be (i.e. predicting FR), etc.</p>
<p>That's a flawed system, and must be fixed. Schools should encourage knowledge and enjoyment of learning. :p</p>
<p>Whoa whoa whoa! Guys, just because you are learning to take the test doesn't mean you aren't learning the subject. So what if teachers teach in order to familiarize their students with AP format? Did you learn something from the reactions questions? Did you learn anything during titrations? Learn anything during thermochemistry? I'm sure you did. Did the teacher teach towards the AP Test? I'm sure he/she did.</p>
<p>Furthermore, AP classes and schools in general (I would hope) encourages knowledge and enjoyment of learning. However, sometimes this "enjoyment" can be overridden by stress to make the grade. It doesn't matter if its an AP class or not. Do you know what can solve this? By getting rid of the grades all together. No pass/fail. No ABCDF's. No anything. Not for CP, Honors, or AP classes. Would this work? Nope. You not enjoying the class isn't AP's problem. Its your problem. I know I've enjoyed all of my AP classes so far.</p>
<p>ebonytear, for your example of not covering formal charge, that is not AP's fault. Formal charge is in the course description, your teacher just chose to ignore it because he or she didn't think it would be on the test. All of my AP teachers have covered everything that was in the cirriculum.</p>
<p>Interesting discussion. However, I feel compelled to make a few points:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>The 'curve' of 60% getting a 5 as being 'easy' is misleading. On most of the tests about 15%-18% of the students get a 5 and about 35%-40% get a 4 or better. That means 60% get a 3 or less.</p></li>
<li><p>A significant amount of college is about taking tests. Often you will only study for what is on the test.</p></li>
<li><p>Why is it a problem that some students cram and get good scores. Perhaps they are quick learners. Perhaps they have a different learning style that does not match the way classes are taught. That does not mean they do not know the material.</p></li>
<li><p>Many colleges as part of their orientation have 'placement' exams. These are similar to the AP tests but there is not cram material available, i.e. PR. In some instances these tests also provide college credit. How great is that? Show up for orientation and leave with college credit. Here is an example:</p></li>
</ul>
<ul>
<li>Most first year classes are survey classes, i.e. MicroEconomic 101. These are the ones you hear about that have over 100 students in them. These are very test oriented, much like the AP. The tests for the class are 'crammable' and they do not teach you everyting about the topic. That is not the point. It makes sense to me to test out of these classes and then get to the more specific and interesting classes.</li>
</ul>
<p>Good luck to all with your efforts on your APs. Looking at the percentages that get 4 and above they are harder than you think.</p>
<p>it's kind of weird to think that students in the future will be smarter... meaning that if i was born 5 years later, i'd be mediocre. wow, that's harsh. i'm going to be dumb in 5 years... O_O But I can definitely see it. I mean the class of 2006 in our school definitely beats the class of 2005 in terms of competitiveness. It just keeps on growing. I wonder if it will ever reach a limit or we'll end up like those crazy countries like china where kids have cram school all day long. Flynn effect? (AP psych) lol</p>
<p>I think APs are great, and they are "hard"er than the regular curriculum. Just because the first poster thinks they are easy for him, does not mean the other million students taking APs will think the same.</p>
<p>i read some article on CC that said that the competitiveness will increase until the class of 2009 or something like that, after which it will level off. Anyone have a link to that article?</p>