<p>Parents of current college students, what has been your child's experience with AP placement, particularly placement in subjects that are not strengths? Did they find themselves being placed at a level too high for a good grade, because they happened to have a really good day when they took the AP exam and scored unusually well? Did they go for a lower placement?</p>
<p>You guessed it, I'm talking math. It has never been my daughter's strongest subject, but she is enjoying calculus, I thinks it makes sense in ways "lesser" math has not. She won't need much math beyond calculus in college, but she is considering pre-med and should make a good grade in whatever flavor of calculus she takes - she is considering her options.</p>
<p>I'm not a parent, but my suggestion would be to talk to her advisor at college and see what (s)he suggests. Each college varies a lot on how they accept credit, what type of placement tests are offered, how classes are taught, what kind of tutoring or extra support is available, etc. Also, encourage your D to talk to upperclassmen when she arrives - they have been through this issue before.</p>
<p>I'm sorry Jenskate, I re-read my post, and it doesn't quite make sense. Of course, she will talk with her advisor, and it is all moot until she gets her AP score back.
The only possible discipline that this will matter is math, and it matters mostly because she needs to get out with that required course, and protect her GPA (notice I didn't mention anything about learning anything, I'm an MD, and I actually made As in calculus, I think, but I'm clueless now). Anyone had the experience of placing totally ove their head?</p>
<p>Some years ago, Harvard did a study that resulted in its allowing only scores of 5 on the AP to count for credit (though placement is a different issue). It was based on the results of students taking the next level courses. If I remember correctly, students who had received a 4 (Harvard did not give credit for 3s) did not do as well as students who had taken the introductory level class at Harvard. </p>
<p>If students received a lot of support while in AP classes, they may feel a bit adrift in college without it, and with so much more materials covered in a much shorter time. This may be what was behind the so-so performance of students who had 4s on their APs. </p>
<p>I have heard from teachers of AP-Calculus that they encourage their students to retake Calc in college. Maybe not the whole series, but retaking Calc-2, for example.</p>
<p>As Jenskate suggests, your D should talk to advisors both profs and peer advisors; often departments hold placement tests before classes start. The aim is not to do well but to find the most appropriate level of difficulty, so preparing for the test is not necessary.</p>
<p>Definitely talk to an advisor. My son's school has math classes designed for majors that are math intensive and classes designed for majors that are not. Credit on the Calculus AB at his school gets you in a Combined Calculus class that reviews Cal I for a few weeks then jumps into Cal II.</p>
<p>Also, if she made any contacts during accepted student weekend and has emaill addresses, she might want to contact students to find out which profs are GPA friendly for those med school admissions.</p>
<p>MY D took APs in Bio, Chem, Phys & Calc- because she is a science major, she was unable to use any of the units to get out of any classes as they were required in her major- she was glad not to have tested out of those classes.</p>
<p>Her friend, also a science major at another university was required to skip those first level classes and would ahve preferred not to do that.</p>
<p>I would only skip an AP earned clas if it were a breadth requirement, like an Art History or English class for a science majot or a science class for an humanities major. If the student needs to do advanced work in the subject, they would be well-served taking the college course.</p>
<p>My 2nd DD is taking APs, for the preparation, not for the units.</p>
<p>Having the units can be a nice feature at a school where registration priority is assigned by units. :)</p>
<p>Hard to be too firm about what's best; high school AP preparation varies so much adn isn't always reflected int he exam grade, and colleges have such varying AP policies at this point (I know the Ivies are especially stringent). Using the AP credit to satisfy a distribution requirement in a subject that is not a strength is a great idea; using the AP credit as a prereq to register for a more advanced science or math class is iffier. Some schools recommend that students who could be granted AP credit in a science on the basis of the exam grade take the equivalent course in college anyway, becuase the material is often taught in more depth even though the high school courses are nominally the equivalent of the college ones; this is important if students plan to go on in the field (as premeds would, for example). It can also be an issue in calc, especially for kids who took AB rather than BC--again, great to use the credit to get out of ever taking math again, but a lot more challenging to use it as a prereq for higher-level calc class, as one would in a premed sequence that requires two calc courses. Advisors at individual colleges will likely be the best resource because they will know what expectations are in a given course.</p>
<p>I have to agree with somemom on this issue, particularly with your D wanting to be premed. Don't take the calc credits. Our D took the credit for calc 1 & was placed into calc 2. She found that she wasn't nearly as well prepared as she would have been had she taken the class in college. She ended up doing well, but math is a strength for her, & it took ALOT more effort than if she'd had the foundation of taking calc 1 in college. The other issue is that the first semester is a time of adjustment, learning how to study, learning what to expect for college, & they don't need the extra stress of a class that they might not be as prepared for as their piers. With our son, who is going into engineering, he is taking AP's, but will only test for the classes that are requirements that don't matter to his major - like english lit, psych.</p>
<p>Thanks guys. I hope that she can actually place down, or make a 3 on the exam and it won't matter ;). Unless her interests change radically, one or 2 courses in calculus and a lot more statistics will be more useful than very advanced math classes. It would do a lot for her confidence and GPA to take a calculus that was partially review, and do well in the class.</p>
<p>As Somemom said, APs have turned out to be more for the preparation than the credit, she isn't getting credit for any of them - which is a big disincentive to knock yourself out the last few weeks of senior year.</p>
<p>I think it depends on both the high school and the college. At my school (Princeton) the math course to replace BC calculus is widely known to be a pain, and much harder than it needs to be. I didn't have time/want to take a math course in my freshman year, but I did take a math-intensive physics course which taught a lot of the math. Because of this, even though I only got a 4 in AB calculus (self taught through EPGY, a bad idea for me as I procrastinated and had to finish the course in a month, and never really learned it) I am skipping to multivariable calculus next semester. So I would just say that the use of placement depends on both the high school background and the college</p>
<p>We don't get a choice about that, her school requires everyone in AP to take the exam, the only choice she got was Econ vs Gov't to take one or both tests - she gets no credit for either, so she's only taking one.</p>
<p>Mwaha! I'm not alone in saying that calculus makes way more sense than the other maths. :P I think calculus is incredibly beautiful and love it... even on those long nights when all I have is my Multivariable book and a page full of proofs. And, this comes from the person who got her only B in Pre-cal because none of it made sense at all. >.>;;</p>
<p>Anyway, this is mostly off topic. I just... am impulsive. However, I'm planning on taking just Calc at Reed if I do... even though I took and passed Calc BC and took another year of calc plus Multivariable through the CC because I heard at Reed its all proof based. Which is scary. So... good luck to your D! <em>coughs and ends her rambling</em></p>
<p>Don't know about Dartmouth, but I think many colleges use their own tests for placement purposes, which is a good idea for math and science. AP scores considered, but more reliance placed on their own test.</p>
<p>I am not at all sure that it is a good idea to re-take a course for which one has received a good score on the AP-exam. It is more important for some gradaute programs to receive high grades than for others; still, whether to repeat or not depends on the field and the student. If the field is highly linear, as in math, and the student has received a high score on the exam, s/he may want to take more electives in the major. Placing out of an introductory sequence would thus make sense. As well, with repetition, there is the danger of slacking off under the impression that one has already mastered the materials. And lo and behold, one does not study enough and ends up with a mediocre grade.
In the humanities, I personally see no reason to use the AP credit to place out of requirements. There's so much more to US history than can be covered (superficially) in the AP course, that taking another history course will likely entail reading totally different texts and covering different topics. Ditto English.</p>
<p>I've been considering this, too. There are two situations. 1) A student will not take any more classes in a particular subject. In that case, I wouldn't worry - take the credit the college offers. However, be aware that some colleges require non-major courses to be in sequences of two or three. So credit for one course in French for an engineering major may not count toward required non-engineering courses unless the student takes two more French courses. The student will merely end up with more credits than required for graduation.</p>
<p>2) The student will be taking additional courses in the subject. Truly, I think the best thing to do in this case is ask the college for a placement test. A 5 on an AP exam typically requires a student to answer only 2/3 of the answers correctly. In most college courses, that is a failing grade. On the other hand, a student scoring a 5 on the AP may have answered all of the questions correctly. Unfortunately, AP doesn't tell the students at which end of the 5 range they scored. If a student knows the material well, he should be able to progress to the next course. However, a student who answered only 2/3 of the AP test questions correctly should probably retake that course if he plans to take any subsequent ones.</p>