I got my undergraduate degree at Drexel University in Mechanical Engineering. Pretty much hated the whole experience, because the engineering there is pretty much a weeder program.
Anyhow, my D is applying to colleges now for next fall, and I want her to be aware of schools with weeder programs, and how miserable they can be. Anyhow, she applying to the following schools:
CSU Chico
CSU Sac State
SJSU
Cal Poly SLO
Cal Poly Pomona
CSU Northridge
CSU Channel Islands
CSU Long Beach
CSU Fullerton
SDSU
Are any of these known to be weeder programs for Biology/ Animal Science Majors?
If you are lumping Biology in with Animal Science majors, then I know for sure that the 2 semesters of General Chemistry at SDSU are weeder courses and I am sure that is true for any school where Animal Science majors have overlap classes with Biology majors (potential Pre-Med, Pre-Dental, Pre-PT etc…).
My niece is a Sophomore now at SDSU and made it through General Chem and is now tackling Organic Chem which is a weeder class on steroids.
Since many of the CSU’s have impacted programs, there will always be some sort of weeding out system at each school.
That is just part of life as there will be competition for admissions to professional and health programs which potentially results in good paying and rewarding jobs.
That’s a really long list of schools. Why so many and what are her stats?
as far as the curriculum, most science majors include some courses that most students consider hard. Most of the CSUs are trying to improve their 4/6 year grad rate so, most have revamped their courses somewhat. They aren’t necessarily there to weed students out but establish a foundation.
tour the campuses and talk to some students about their experience - schools with lots of huge lecture halls aren’t ideal for all students. Most students use Rate my professor to ID unnecessarily difficult teachers.
I like @NCalRent’s take on the situation by using the term “establish a foundation” vs. a weeder class. Regardless, there will always be a course or courses that will prove to be a difficult for one reason or another.
My so-called weeder course (many ions ago) at Cal Poly Pomona, was Invertebrate Zoology. The laboratory exams were brutal on purpose as confirmed by the Graduate students that helped the Professor setup the exams.
@Gumbymom
She’s applying for Animal Science at Cal Poly Pomona and Chico, Dairy Science at Cal Poly SLO, and the rest are for Biology. Do you know if either of the Cal Polys or Chico have their Animal Science majors overlap their classes with Biology majors?
I saw in another random post that SDSU was a weeder school. I don’t think she’ll do well in that environment. “Luckily” SDSU is an extreme reach. Are SJSU or Northridge less of weeder schools than SDSU?
@NCalRent
My D’s CSU GPA is 3.59 and her SAT superscore is 1110, so her EI is 3982. We live in NorCal, so she is in-state, but non-local everywhere.
Yeah, it’s a long list of schools, mostly because there are many reach schools (Cal Poly SLO, Cal Poly Pomona, SDSU, CSU Long Beach, and CSU Fullerton). I figure that the matches are CSU Chico, CSU Sac State, and CSU Northridge; and the safeties are CSU Channel Islands and SJSU (Biological Sciences only require an EI of 2950-3200 at SJSU) [She already got into Montana State for Animal Science, so we’re not too concerned about having many safeties]
The biology major that gave the tour at UC Riverside, said that half the biology students won’t make it to Junior year, and there’s no way to opt-out of the Freshman Biology classes, because they want everyone to take them, so that they can weed people out. On the otherhand, the biology major that gave the tour at UN Reno said that she didn’t think any of the classes were weeders and felt the school was trying to graduate everyone. I definitely felt that my D would be happier with the more welcoming environment at UN Reno.
I’m probably asking this question wrong about weeder classes. I should have asked “which of these schools accept students believing that they are qualified with the intent to graduate them.”
For example, in the 1980’s I figured that Drexel accepted everyone who applied for engineering that had a pulse. They then tried to weed out the majority of the class so that only the “qualified” students would graduate and the rest of the students would transfer to a different major. Eventhough I did graduate with a Mechanical Engineering degree from there, I would not have attended in the first place if I knew what the atmosphere was like.
I think Drexel would have been better off only accepting “qualified” students than also accepting “unqualified students” and then creating a miserable environment for everyone in trying to figure out who they should have accepted in the first place. (Not sure if the school is different now). So, I’m trying to have my D steer clear of schools that don’t really plan to graduate the students that they accept in the majors that they enroll in.
@UCBUSCalum
I understand about there being “competition for admissions to professional and health programs …” However, I think that it’s worth looking deeper into how each of these schools are set up. For example, assuming that you need at least a 3.7 GPA for pre-Med or pre-Vet you’d probably be better off enrolling in a “good” school where you can get at least a 3.7, than a “great” school where you only get a 3.2.
For example, a kid from my high school was ranked in the top 10 of our class, and got into some “good” engineering schools, and a great Ivy-League engineering school. He chose the Ivy-League school, but couldn’t maintain a 2.0, and ended up changing to a completly unrelated major. I think that if he had enrolled in the “good” engineering school, and skipped the “great” one, he’d be an engineer today.
Agree, but there is a question on being a big fish in a little pond or a small fish in a big pond. In some areas the school does not matter as long as you have the right GPA. In other areas, you might need to come from top tier schools. S’s good friend chose not to attend a UC in biology for pre-med and instead chose to attend the University of Nevada, Reno. The thinking was that it would be easier to get a high GPA (the perception was at UNR, the competition was easier than at a UC) to get the GPA for acceptance into a decent medical school. The friend recently gave up the medical aspirations because he had a low B average. I suspect, there were some weeding out courses at UNR.
@Gregmacd: I would say SDSU is not a weeder school in general but all applicants are admitted into the “pre-major” status and must take the required pre-req courses and maintain a specific GPA (different for each major) to continue into the upper division courses.
My son was a CS major at SDSU and it was well known the General Chemistry was a weeder course for STEM majors. Luckily he had an option of taking Chemistry or Physics so he chose Physics for his CS major which made more sense. His weeder class for CS was Data structures.
My niece that is currently attending as I have stated in my other post, is a Biology major targeting PA school and both General Chem and Organic Chem are her weeder classes.
If your D has a good foundation in the pre-req courses needed for her major, she will be able to handle it. I always encourage all students to make use of the tutoring resources and their Professor’s office hours early on if they are having a difficult time in a class.
@UCBUSCalum
I appreciate the perspective on UNR. I only had that one opinion from the tour guide, but responses like yours help students and their parents get more insight.
@Gumbymom Thanks for the links! I’ll check them out. That was a smart move for your son to avoid General Chemistry and take Physics to avoid the weed out.
At Drexel, Fluid Mechanics and Fluid Dynamics were weed-out classes for regular full-time “day” students, but they were much easier for the part-time “night” students, who worked full-time. Despite this, I took Fluid Mechanics during the day thinking that if I just studied hard and put in the time, I would do well. Well after spending an enormous amount of time studying, I only managed to get a “C” in Fluid Mechanics.
So when it came time to take Fluid Dynamics I took it at “night” with the part-time students. When the mid-terms came back, I got the highest score of a 95%. The professor seemed mad at me and asked if I was a “day” student, but I was allowed to take the class, since it had the same course number as the “day” course. Anyhow, I wound up with an “A” in Fluid Dynamics. I probably would have only had a “C” if I took it during the day.
I think too many students go into college falsely thinking that if they just study hard, they’ll do well. However, I learned that there is a whole other level to college about “when” you take a class, “who” you take it with, “what” back exams you have access to, etc.
Thanks again for that list of courses. It offers some clues:
- At Cal Poly SLO, BIO 111 is “Not open for major credit in Biological Sciences, Microbiology or Marine Sciences.”
- At Chico, the Biology majors take Biol 151 the 1st semester, but the Animal Science majors take it the 2nd semester. Also, the Biology majors go on to take Biol 152 and Biol 153, but these are optional for Animal Science majors.
you seem to have a pretty good handle on where she’ll get in.
If you are looking for a more intimate and nurturing environment, you should take a look at Sonoma - though, they don’t offer animal science, they do have a solid bio program.
If you want to streamline her list, I’d omit CP SLO, SDSU and CSULB because she’s really unlikely to be admitted - Channel Island because she’s got a safety and perhaps SJ or Sac because they are both really big commuter campuses and are gonna be impersonal…
Good luck
@NCalRent Thanks for the advice. My D just found out that she got into UNR last night for Veterinarian Sciences. So that’s probably in her top choices with Chico, CP SLO, and CP Pomona.
$70 per application really adds up, but just having some chance of getting in has some value. (When I applied to law school, I had no chance of getting into Yale or Harvard, but I applied anyhow, because I didn’t want to be asking “what if” in the future.) Anyhow, she knows she has little chance for SDSU, CSULB, etc., but she just wants to apply anyhow. Somewhat like me.
D looked at Sonoma St, but her heart wasn’t in it. If it was closer to downtown Santa Rosa or Petaluma, it probably would have made a difference, but it was a little too far from either for her.
CSUCI is her SoCal safety in case she decides she really does want to go to school more in the SoCal region.
sounds like you’ve got a great plan.
congrats on UNR.
Congrats on UNR. My S17 has loved his Animal Science program. He has actually taken more classes a biology major would take too. At his school he hasn’t really found any weed-out classes (in his mind) but they were all challenging but fair. His hardest so far is biochemistry. He still has an A but has had to study like crazy for it. If planning to go to vet school just make sure you keep an eye on the prerequisites required by any vet school D may apply to. They are definitely not all the same. Usually the advisor will help with this but we have preferred to look at it all ourselves to double check because things are changing every year. (Right now we are hoping S’s admission letter will come this week! Fingers crossed!) Good luck to your D!
@momocarly Thanks! That’s good to hear! Best of luck to your Son! Where is he applying?