<p>I’m too much a real politick cat mate to care about this person’s financial situation or that they dream for some prize to be perfectly honest, thats just swell…zzzzz. No disrespect to you personally since always allow people to save face and an opportunity to think for themselves. Soz, but way off base concerning my personality and I’m not going to insult you personally. Yer prolly koo fwiw but realize i really had to work hard to refrain myself from smart arse remarks. I consider banter and from experience certain arguments fun and easy altho UC transfers tend to take themselves way too seriously, which makes it more tempting. Its fun to confuse people with facts who already have their minds made up :)</p>
<pre><code>That said, my recommendations, according to the information a student supplies to me, is generally going to be more accurate than some frosh or counselor paid to encourage students more than direct them properly on an individual basis. I just relay the information and providing a free service that you are free to disagree with. Ta-ra!
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<p>Generally speaking:
CSU’s: Institutions designed for those seeking teaching credentials primarily (+ majors )
UC’s: Institutions designed for those seeking to do research (- brand whores)</p>
<p>Well, we agree here. I just don’t find anything wrong with desiring the prestige of a UC. I mean, if thats what the guy wants, then good on him. Many of my friends from back in HS went to CSUs, and they are fine schools. Most of these friends are now working in solid careers. But I have a difficult time believing that employers would favor a degree from a CSU over a UC. Plus, at least as far as grad school is concerned, I imagine that a student with, say, a 3.5 from Cal or UCLA vs. a 3.5 from Fullerton, would be looked upon much more favorably. Winning a Pulitzer, unless its in Journalism, really doesn’t require any school. I would say life experience makes a better writer, but thats just me. Regardless, apologies if my prior response got out of hand; I tend to react strongly when I feel someone is being unjustly attacked/ crapped on. If you are truly coming from a place where you mean to help this person with sound advice, then more power to you.</p>
<p>thx, all the best to you. I will repeat again…Prestige is based upon individual accomplishments, struggle and all. Better question for introspection would be ‘am I a leader and doing the best i can comparing self to self on where I want to be’ or ‘am I a follower riding on the coattails of others comparing self to others’? </p>
<p>generally speaking…</p>
<p>employer: does X candidate have bachelors- Check.
did X candidate go to a CSU, UC, LAC etc.-irrelevant for most jobs, see above</p>
<p>grad school: does X candidate have bachelors- Check.
did X candidate go to a CSU, UC, LAC etc.-irrelevant, see below
does X candidate have any experience or curriculum related to grad goal-??</p>
<p>History and Poli Sci majors rock imo but its not a easy major to market no matter where one goes so gotta love it. Success relies more on experience and complete social involvement and immersed in the field and/or have to go all the way—> Ph.D! I just thought teaching history (or poli sci) is a good back up safety net career direction with a greater return of investment in a shorter time span, enough so, that CSU’s seem the more reasonable choice. I went through same cycle of thought as the prestige whores getting all caught up which distracted me from rational thought. 'Noon thirty so off to film class, peace.</p>
<p>My parents are paying for my tuition, so it doesn’t matter which state school I attend. As far as CSUs go, I’m sure they provide a more than satisfactory education for people preparing to enter certain fields. Somehow, though, I doubt that an employer would hire a Cal State grad over a UC grad. I thought a more rigorous school requires a more prepared and apt student?</p>
<p>I think this thread has gotten off topic, though. If there are mods that peruse the forums, feel free to lock this.</p>
<p>Material in most majors are quite similar between the systems just the material at UC’s are at a more intense pace typically. Find what fits you and forget about other people and their fields. If you sincerely found what you want at a UC already then go for it. Although if you found what you wanted at a CSU small LAC and choose a UC just b/c you thought the name would impress employers or others then you may be exposed as a fraud. This is true any many fields and you would actually lose social standing and respect amongst your peers and co-workers for not being true to yourself and being well…a poser. Realize, the majority of what you learn in college will go unrecognized. You and your education are sadly looked at as merely a product…welcome to the machine. </p>
<p>Lets say you love X (say music, art, film, engineering, history, lit, science whatever) and that is your passion which keeps your love for it throughout your entire life. Honestly, wouldn’t you be a bit turned off if your buddy or new co-worker was just there for the ‘job’ because heard it paid well but really shared absolutely no human passion for what he/she is doing? Wouldn’t it be disheartening and even a bit annoying that he is getting paid as much as you yet never learned the craft and only sat in class wasting space and just went to school for some measly paycheck? </p>
<pre><code>If you are getting into history, poli sci, art, music, film, science for the money you are picking the wrong career mate. Those paths are many years of sacrifice just getting by until steady paychecks are flowing in that one doesn’t have to worry about it. Many people who choose such a direction could have easily picked another job/career path with a fatter paycheck but didn’t. A common thing often heard by those who did is ‘the people i worked around were miserable and I wasn’t happy’ so I finally changed my life to do what I loved and always wanted too…wish it didn’t take me so long and I listened.’ The opposite is true too which is still a matter of luck or years finding where someone is content and recognized for the good work they did instead of just the negative criticism. There is nothing noble about work man, its all dirty, whether the person wears a suit or not. Real people can noble though and even the quietest kid in class who is virtually unknown can grow up to do great things without having to save the world. These themes are timeless and such stories have been written over and over again yet doesn’t seem to click such an epiphany for some until old age for some, younger for others. The ones who discover younger tend to be happier, have tighter bonds and relationships, liked where they work and/or what they do, live healthier, longer more enriching lives. It’s really up to you and because life begets life, so you too will experience ups and downs, and have to make choices and decisions in your life that will not only effect you but others around you whether you accept responsibility or not.
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<p>I offered some tips on what you could do to build a rapport if want to be/become a history minded person and/or teach to build skills and experience. If you just care about what you think you are on some piece of paper or trying to portray to others something you are not then join 20 clubs and do nothing and take credit where none is due like many here do so can have ECs to the UC’s. You’d lose respect from those with integrity, including many educators, many who know these clever human tricks already. That is why uni’s moved towards the holistic approach because have such experience that frosh lack and want real people with real struggles and how they overcame for example (not sob stories) unless you want to attract fake people in your life and care to see what that is about. Decide what YOU want to do because most of what you sold in life thus far is part of a big lie. I’m actually a very happy and honest person who encourages people but i won’t sit here an smile and lie to you or say don’t worry be happy or some crap nor treat you like a child or stupid and certainly not here to put you or your dreams down.</p>
<p>I still don’t understand how a CSU grad would look better to employers. It’s general knowledge that smarter people or harder working people go to better schools (Ivy, Cal, UCLA, etc). Why would someone who looks less capable on paper be given a job over the more capable applicant?</p>
<p>I’m going into teaching because I want to make a difference in one way or another. Although I’d rather write full time, how would I be a dishonest person for pursuing a job as an educator? And how would History be a career path including ‘many years of sacrifice’? All I want is my undergrad.</p>
<p>Why are you putting down schools like Cal? I already said I’m not paying for my tuition. I’m intent on studying at one of the best colleges in the nation!</p>
<p>I always seem to be accused of putting down cal haha. I realize cal for undergrad is a great solid education. That is not the issue. Its what your goal is. If its teaching and eventually a uc grad thesis then one goes to a csu first. For a history ba it matters little. Employers look for the best fit plus csu s are geared towards the work world. Too late with many ???s. Kinda sounds like u may want english? More practical and liked by employers but no ot as fun to teach imo. Want employment skills for history? Double or minor in geography with a gis certificate.</p>
<p>briceies - seriously, do what you want and dont waste your time arguing with this guy. gahhh you will in NO way be viewed as a “poser” or whatever the hell by wanting to go to cal. my hist teacher last quarter got their undergrad, and then MUCH later their ph.d there. i am still in contact with my high school science teacher, and he is going to apply for a ph.d at cal soon. he went to davis for undergrad. do as you see fit, and listen to no one’s heart but your own.</p>
<p>In many ways, UCD has a better BA history program (and better food) than Cal’s. Cal’s history program is a mixed bag and NOT that difficult either so you can try to fool your friends on how smart you are cuz went to Cal. There are some really good UG (but not so great GSI’s) history professors at Cal but the school did lose some of the greats. </p>
<p>Personally, if you attend Cal (it’s really not hard to get into their history program) I’d stick with studying the European based classes over the others for quality professors and interesting material. If you are interested in Law school, then stuff like Roman Law etc is all good and may even want to consider a Rhetoric minor. The classics stuff is alright at Cal but a bit better at UCSC and its a toss up between Medieval at UCSB and Cal. </p>
<p>UCLA generally has imo a better history program overall but its a crap shoot what classes may interest you. Cal has some really good interesting history classes too but all depends on when they are offered and who is teaching.</p>
<p>UCLA: larger number of more engaging, entertaining, and interesting professors that teach history on the undergrad level. No 30-50-120 page research paper compared to Cal (which I don’t look as a bad thing at all but scares some students). Flexibility in classes which allows you to decide on a whole what class concentration fits you best. Other pros include…great location, better food, quarter system, cuter girls in school/dept</p>
<p>Cal pros: access to great archives, DC exchange or internships for archive studies, make students write a research paper, some great professors that teach interesting material, good location, diverse student body.</p>
<p>If you are shooting for ‘prestige’ and want a more in depth (sometimes archaic imo) UG history program then Stanford is where you want to go if want to stay in California.</p>
<p>Since are new to research, there has been plenty of historical and statistical research done on the whole US world news college ranking system and the whole UC’s are soooooo prestigious and CSU’s suck debacle. It’s already proven by many researchers with facts to back up their arguments to be utterly baseless and a complete racket suckering so many students and parents. Enjoy</p>
<p>Funny you say mention the minor in Rhetoric; since I’m considering Law with my Poli Sci degree, I’ve been looking at doing that as well, since its only a few classes for the minor and sounds pretty interesting.</p>
<p>haha, ye, well many of the cal philosophy majors try and bag on the rhetoric guys. I have friends who graduated from cal in philosophy and it seemed like a friendly rivalry for whatever reason. Thing is all the Cal Philosophy majors I know are depressed and still unemployed haha while the rhetoric guys got jobs. Law and Society at Cal is a bit boring and eh so at least Poli Sci is more interesting, even though the cool ol school ones teach at CCC’s ha! </p>
<p>No disrespect but Poli Sci, even at Cal, for those trying to get into law school, is looked at Philosophy (lite) for dummies. The only thing worse than that is History where one can write their research paper on the “History of Poverty” or “History of Food Service”. </p>
<p>Actually, I’m thinking of enrolling into the Western Institute of Archives this June-July at Cal. It should be fun and educational as long as there aren’t too many idiots, geeks, or slow moving dinosaurs.</p>