<p>I'm wondering what everyones' thoughts are on [URL=<a href="http://theinstitute.ieee.org/ieee-roundup/opinions/ieee-roundup/are-engineers-really-in-demand%5Dthis%5B/URL">http://theinstitute.ieee.org/ieee-roundup/opinions/ieee-roundup/are-engineers-really-in-demand]this[/URL</a>] article.</p>
<p>Civil engineering unemployment is only 4.8%, even though it was the field worst hit by the downturn (due to the construction crash)? That is much lower than the overall unemployment rate.</p>
<p>However, new graduates are probably much worse off than those who had jobs before but manage to avoid getting laid off or being in a company that closed.</p>
<p>I live in the largest gold mining area in the world here in Northern Nevada, and there is a 5000 dollar referral bonus to anyone who finds an engineer that newmont hires. They overpay here too, becaus nobody wants to live in the Nevada desert.</p>
<p>no, not until after the election</p>
<p>^Politics, religion, and her…</p>
<p>Quote raiders83</p>
<p>"I live in the largest gold mining area in the world here in Northern Nevada, and there is a 5000 dollar referral bonus to anyone who finds an engineer that newmont hires. They overpay here too, becaus nobody wants to live in the Nevada desert. "</p>
<p>I don’t get the $5000 referral thing. To find an engineer that newmont hires, can’t I just go to the newmont company search directory? I’d work in Northern Neveda, can’t be all that far from Vegas for weekend trips, right?</p>
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People who work for the company can make $5000 if they find someone outside the company, recommend them, and that person gets hired. So if I work for them, and think you would be a good hire for the company, I can recommend you - if you get hired as an engineer, I make $5k.</p>
<p>Thanks cosmicfish. I’ve never heard of such a hiring tactic anywhere else. Seems like a bit of a hiring risk to bait people to rope their friends/near-strangers in so they can make an easy $5000. But it makes the point that gold mining jobs are bountiful in N. Neveda.</p>
<p>Referrals are not uncommon at all. My company used to do it too before the economy went south. It’s actually less of a risk than hiring somebody nobody at the company has ever met before. Companies pay the referral bonus in order to lower the risk of hiring somebody who doesn’t work out and end up costing the company time and money.</p>
<p>Hard-working, motivated, and talented engineering grads are in high demand, as are experienced engineers with specifically desired skills. Some engineers are none of the above, and they aren’t in high demand. Engineers who allowed their skills to become obsolete are not in demand, nor are engineering students who didn’t do well in school. It’s really not attractive to a company, in a slow-growth economy, that an experienced engineer failed to keep up to date in his field, nor is it attractive that an engineering grad barely understood his classes but was able to regurgitate enough formulas to scrape by with C’s. With grade inflation the way it is, merely getting an engineering degree is not going to do for you what it would have in the 50’s.</p>
<p>I know there are Americans complaining that foreigners are taking their jobs. I want American jobs to be filled by Americans as much as the next guy, but you can’t force companies to hire people who are not qualified. You aren’t entitled to an engineering job because you got a piece of paper, you get a job by being the most qualified candidate available. We wouldn’t have many of the most successful and innovative companies in the world if they couldn’t hire the most qualified engineers in the world. If you want to be one of those engineers, all you have to do is take your studies/career as seriously as your competition. Most American engineers are just as successful and innovative as ever, but the ones who were doing keg stands and playing cornhole for most of their college career and were surprised to find themselves unemployed happen to be more outspoken about their inability to find jobs. </p>
<p>Let’s not forget that Americans played a fundamental role in most of the greatest innovations of the 20th century. My Grandpa’s generation stood in food lines during the great depression. When he was studying engineering, his fear that he could end up in back in those food lines with his kids, or be drafted as a foot soldier was extra motivation. Today, failing out of engineering school might mean you have to drive a truck and only be able to afford a used Ford on credit instead of a new Audi. In other parts of the world, failing out of engineering school might mean you work in an iPhone factory and live in a one-room apartment with 4 other people. Hopefully the recession motivates our generation enough to turn the tides. The problem is not foreign competition, the problem is our own lack of motivation. I spoke with a professor about this, and he said that he is actually seeing a huge improvement in the performance of American students in the past couple of years, and that’s a great sign.</p>
<p>On a totally different note, don’t forget that not only do grades and experience vary widely among engineers, but so do specialties and locations. It’s just not productive in any way to talk broadly about engineers, they are not all equal.</p>
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Not at all. Recruiting engineers can cost several times that, and history has shown that this additional expense does pay off for the company. Candidates recruited this way still go through interviews and vetting by HR, and must typically stay for six months or a year before the referral bonus is paid. The new recruit already arrives with a friend at the company, an important factor for retention. Plus, it turns out that most people are unwilling to stake their reputation at the company on some unknown or low-quality recruit, just so they can get a few grand. All-in-all, it pays off well. </p>
<p>My company also does this, although the bonus is only $3k. We are in a lower-profit industry, and are currently at a reduced hiring level, but the increased tenure and performance of engineers hired through these referrals is well worth the money.</p>
<p>Referrals are encouraged under the idea that a current employee is more likely to have some idea of the candidate’s suitability for the job, and won’t refer a poor candidate. I.e. the belief is that a referred candidate has already been pre-screened by the current employee, and is more likely to pass a rigorous hiring process and be a good match for the job than one of the thousands of people who shotgun-submit resumes every day. The referral bonuses are also typically a lot cheaper than paying headhunter commissions to headhunters who theoretically make better targeted recruiting searches.</p>
<p>The drawback to the employer is the vulnerability to nepotism if the hiring process is not rigorous enough to keep out poor candidates. That is likely why higher level managers are often excluded, and managers are often excluded for any hire within their “chain of command”.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for those not well connected (such as new graduates or other new entrants into the labor market, or those changing to a different industry, type of work, or location), it also increases the importance of “whom you know” relative to “what you know”. “What you know” is necessary to pass an interview process, but “whom you know” is advantageous to getting the interview in the first place.</p>
<p>Referrals are a common practice in high-tech industry. The amount of referral bonus varies depending on the hiring boom vs layoff season (10k to 1k), but companies prefer a referral. Along with referrals, another common practice that is not talked out side much is connections. There is a big difference in response if you send resume through the jobs site of the company vs send it to a friend who forwards to the hiring manager.</p>
<p>KamelAkbar, thank you for your insight. That was a real slap to the face.</p>
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<p>What part?</p>
<p>I not saying that I am proud of my undergraduate GPA (because I am not), but I graduated with a sub-3.0 and not from a Top-10 school and still was hired by a big company right out of school. Of course the undergrad GPA hurt me as far as immediate entry into grad school but after some years of experience, I used the “'ole backdoor way” into grad school.</p>
<p>I think folks forget that this is the U.S.A. and this country is known for creating multiple paths to get to something.</p>
<p>I don’t know how it is in other engineering fields, but in software engineering…a M.S. +10 years experience = 10 years experience + a M.S., so it really did not matter much that my M.S. degree came 10 years later. I was paid the same as someone who earned a M.S. earlier and acquired 10 years experience. Employers didn’t ask “when” I got a M.S., they basically checked it off the list and proceeded with the rest of the interviewing process. Hell, I don’t even list my graduation years on my resume.</p>
<p>This is why I tell folks quit worrying about school rank, AP credits and the like if you are taking computer science or any other “in-demand” major. Just take something “hot and in-demand” and let basic supply/demand theory work for you. This is the U.S.A…there is always somebody who wants to start and run a company and need to hire someone with desired skills.</p>
<p>Globaltraveler:</p>
<p>I’m speaking generally about engineers. Most don’t have (~30%?) job growth outlooks like software engineers do. Even then, I suspect you graduated into a much better job market. If it was in the 90’s, you really cannot compare your experience to that of students graduating today. Since then, you’ve probably been acquiring valuable skills and meeting my definition “in high demand.” </p>
<p>Generally speaking, engineering standards are higher, competition is better, and job openings are fewer. Of course, it depends on a lot of factors. I never specifically mentioned a GPA range because it varies by major, location, school, experience, etc. My point is that some engineers aren’t in high demand, and that even though some employers are struggling to fill engineering positions, not every engineer is going to be qualified to fill them. Merely getting the piece of paper does not immediately label you “in high demand,” even if engineers in general are in high demand.</p>
<p>Referrals are just that. The company still has to vet the referred people. If the initial resume does not have the important points, it won’t go much further, so it’s not like one can get the bounty by recommending the dude on lying on the park bench.</p>
<p>My friends sons have banked a lot of money from working abroad at some very high pay jobs as engineers in Saudi Arabia and Alaska. Neither young man wanted to stay in those areas, however, and took the jobs as one would a hardship military tour. When you limit where you want to work, it can be difficult finding a job. They were unemployed for a while, looking for just the right situation (they could afford with their stash and living with parents while doing the search). Finding “A JOB” was not a problem, but finding a job that fit what they wanted was a whole other issue and not a slam dunk. It’s the same with a lot of jobs. THere are folks that can’t move to where jobs are available as the jobs they are seeking simply do not pay enough for them to move out of their current home. My son has some friends who live in some very depressed areas, but have family that helps out which makes it possible. They could get jobs here that they would love to get there, but then they can’t afford to live on the pay here. Engineers are fortuante in that the pay levels and desirablilty for engineers is such that moving for the job is. more possible.</p>
<p>I think there’s a lot of propoganda out there, trying to convince people that the engineering job market is hot, when it is really anything but. Businesses seem to want engineers with 5-10 years of work experience, and are willing to work for relatively low wages. But they’re not willing to hire many new grads, nor are they willing to provide long-term sustainable careers with upwards mobility for those who are hired.</p>
<p>In Electrical/Computer Engineering, the situation is absolutely dreadful as most of the micro-electronics industry has dissappeared domestically, and even the IT jobs have been mostly offshored. Its not uncommon, even for people who were at the relative top of the class, to send out hundreds of resumes, only to receive little response from the employers. </p>
<p>Also, professionalism has really suffered a terrible beating across the board, at least in Electrical/Computer/Software. Resumes not being replied to. Sham interviews. Cubicles, not proper offices for professionals. A lot of firms, especially in industries that don’t particularly need higher-end talent, absolutely won’t touch the folks with the high GPA’s, preferring to hire the low GPA graduates for their ‘retainability’. That’s right, I’ve observed that its actually easier for the 2.5 GPA crowd to get jobs than the 3.5-4.0 GPA’s.</p>
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<p>I don’t see it that way. Americans are qualified (>90% of STEM graduates are US citizens!). They’re applying for the jobs in droves. Yet firms, faced with this pile of resumes, don’t even bother to interview them. Instead preferring the lower cost “foreigner” who can be brought into the country and held captive by a H-1B visa or the hope of getting a green card. </p>
<p>I’ve seen quite a few top students, hard workers, etc., find themselves chronically unemployed or not even able to find their first job in engineering after completing the program. Some with double degrees as well. A real human tragedy for many of these grads.</p>
<p>What percentage of the workforce in the engineering fields are on an H-1B visa?</p>