<p>cobrat:
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<p>I’ll disagree with you on that. I think it is more dependent on how the children are raised than on whether or not they are on FA.</p>
<p>It has been a long time since I had reason to investigate it but my memory is that one of the LACs, which you may or may not consider to have any name recognition - Swarthmore - included semester abroad as part of the regular tuition cost. Full-pay students had no extra costs and FA could afford it. If I am correct, (a current Swarthmore parent could maybe confirm?) this could be seen as one benefit over Harvard based on your description of your son’s experience and if a semester abroad is important to your daughter. </p>
<p>However, many students I know at HYP, full-pay and FA, have already had travel & living abroad experiences and prefer to stay on campus all four years and soak up everything possible at the university. LAC’s do have more limited course offerings including, of course, no graduate courses… so some LAC students may use the semester abroad for research purposes</p>
<p>though Swarthmore students have access to Penn’s graduate school</p>
<p>just musing</p>
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<p>Sounds like your acquaintance is a exhibiting symptom of the very entitlement complex that 20+ Prof was talking about. </p>
<p>T’is not too far removed from countless encounters Prof/TA friends have had with many overentitled full-pay students and parents who feel that they’re entitled to A-level grades precisely because they “paid dearly for it”…lacking quality of actual work turned in and work ethic of student in question be damned…</p>
<p>sewhappy,
Re #172: I felt the same pangs as you when hearing about FA kids spending consecutive summers abroad on amazing adventures on H’s nickel. What bugged me was that at least one of the beneficiaries was the child of a highly-educated college prof (not at H). It is one thing when colleges foot the bill for the “less-fortunate” low-income student - that feels right. Its another when the offspring of parents more educated than we are get the freebies, simply because their parents chose not to work or took a low-paying job. That does not feel as right.</p>
<p>^I can understand why you feel upset about the inequality of opportunities provided by the dynamic of the financial aid system.</p>
<p>Your second to last sentence, though, seems a bit misinformed and very stereotypical. I doubt their parents took a low paying job or chose not to work out of their own desire. I’d imagine it’s more their own circumstances that led to those jobs rather than taking a low paying job because they’d prefer to be low paid.</p>
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<p>This might be true at your B or C grade private colleges but is not true at DD’s college or college of any of her high school friends who happen to be all full pay.</p>
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<p>Does it bug you that the prof’s salary is evidently so low as to qualify her/his child for FA? </p>
<p>Those low salaries are the reason many universities have amazing tuition benefits for faculty/staff children. But not all profs are fortunate enough to be employed at schools that offer a tuition benefit. And the students at their universities are benefiting from them taking such a low paying job. It definitely puts their own children at a disadvantage with regard to college costs. imho</p>
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<p>So the well-educated person who “took a low-paying job” - say teaching elementary school, or doing social work, or working for a nonprofit, or whatever - is less deserving of financial aid than the person with an equivalent income who is not well-educated?</p>
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<p>Not true. This happens even at the very tippy top institutions as that Ivy Prof I mentioned experienced firsthand herself. </p>
<p>Also, heard from a couple of Ivy(One of the HYPSMCs) faculty members and several undergrads on that campus that they’ve actually had overentitled students and parents threaten lawsuits with high powered lawyers because the full-pay college kid in question wasn’t happy with the B-, C, or F grade received in a course. Thankfully, the Ivy in question was powerful enough to laugh off those efforts…but it does illustrate the ridiculousness of students/parents who are full-pay and have such entitlement complexes. </p>
<p>Sorry, but this phenomenon is not limited to the lower tiered private colleges.</p>
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<p>Although I do not think such a change will ever come to pass, I do think there is a viable argument in favor of the affirmative. The way the FA system at some colleges is set up, there is no incentive for parents to use their earnings potential to pay for tuition.</p>
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<p>No. My feelings were directed only at the expensive study abroad programs.</p>
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<p>Only if you consider Yale and Columbia “very tippy top institutions”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/[/url]”>http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/</a></p>
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<p>From a prof who taught in the Ivies for 20 years.</p>
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<p>FREE advice…have your daughter complete ALL of her applications…even the RD ones…at the same time as her SCEA application. First…she will be in the “college application mode”…second they will then be done and she can enjoy her senior year, third she won’t have to regroup IF she does not get accepted at the SCEA school.</p>
<p>Both of my kids got most of their college applications done by October 15 (each of them did toss in ONE school later…why???) and this made their senior years EVER so much more enjoyable. When their friends were writing essays and completing applications, our kids were done with that.</p>
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<p>So one should choose one’s career based only on how much income it will generate to pay for a child’s college? And to h*!! with the well-educated person who chooses to live with less in order to make a positive contribution to society?</p>
<p>We’re in worse trouble in this country that I had thought, and that’s saying a great deal.</p>
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<p>Full pay parent here. How would this be so? Do the parents call the colleges and demand high grades? I didn’t have contact with my kids’ professors at all. The notion that full pay parents are “paying for” A level grades is beyond ridiculous. My kids worked mighty hard for their grades…and would have done so whether full pay or on scholarship. That’s how they work in school.</p>
<p>@Bay - So what is a PHD in Humanities supposed to do besides teach college? Are you aware that most college teachers are not tenured professors, no matter what lofty school they teach at. Many of these “contract” college teachers don’t get any benefits. Try not to make a judgement until you know the full situation.</p>
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<p>If you choose to have children, yes, you absolutely must take college costs into consideration when choosing a career. </p>
<p>One might argue that FA should not exist to benefit students who were raised in highly-educated homes. I don’t think that is far-fetched at all. Those students very likely have the ability to earn merit awards or get jobs to help them pay for cc or state unis. I’m not sure the social goals of FA are met when the children of Harvard grads get free tuition based on income. I don’t expect this to change, however.</p>
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<p>May I ask a couple of questions?</p>
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<li><p>Was the study abroad part of the regular semesters or was this one of the summer opportunities. I am confused about the added $10,000 to the 52,000 bill. Does the school charge the same tuition and fees but covers the expenses of study abroad, or does it bill the direct costs of the abroad expenses. It is a bit confusing because the consensus is that studying abroad is far less expensive than a semester at home. Some schools pocket the difference; others simply pass the expenses through.</p></li>
<li><p>For the part-time jobs, is it safe to assume that the school reserves them for work study recipients?</p></li>
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<p>The thread has gotten away from this, but I am relatively happily doing full pay at a high end LAC. Most everyone we care about (employers, grad schools, fellowships) domestically knows and generally thinks highly of the school and its students. I encouraged ShawSon to choose it over Ivies because I thought it would be better for him and I think that that judgement is proving correct.</p>
<p>The name recognition is more useful internationally, which would suggest a graduate degree at a school with much stronger international name recognition.</p>
<p>Bay, what you advocate eliminates plenty of careers that are beneficial to society. </p>
<p>I think that people did not know 20 years ago how much college costs were going to escalate compared to their pay…</p>
<p>There are also social benefits when students go to college; therefore, society should pay some of the costs of going to college.</p>