<p>If you mean calling or sometimes even storming into the office of the Profs and/or TA(s) in question and unleashing a temper tantrum demanding grade changes, yes. They have noticed an increasing trend of this behavior for the last decade and attribute it to the “helicopter parenting phenomenon”. Unfortunately, they’ve also complained that in most cases…the school administrations increasingly took the side of the full-pay students/parents due to the increasing “customer service mentality” and for the sake of “future alumni relations”. :(</p>
<p>A former roommate who TAed a course at an HYPSMC Ivy felt it was noteworthy when upon finding a student who pleaded for a passing grade despite not doing much work or bothering to show up for the entire semester, the Prof actually backed him up when he gave that student a richly deserved F. Turns out said student has been able to get previous Profs/TAs to pass him despite turning in slipshod work and spotty attendance.</p>
<p>Following this line of reasoning, the children of the profs teaching your full-pay kids will be unable to attend the school their parent teaches at - unless there are special provisions made, like a tuition benefit or exchange program. Are you okay with this? Really?</p>
<p>Do you also object to universities providing tuition benefits to employees?</p>
<p>Who exactly do you want teaching your kids?</p>
<p>My starting salary in the business I am in would pay two years of Harvard tuition at that time. What I make now won’t pay one. Admittedly I could have a bigger business, but still… How am I supposed to plan for that?</p>
<p>One of the big problems (maybe THE big problem) with our public school system is that for the last 40 years, most of the people going into teaching have been from the bottom 25% of the college graduate barrel. I have tremendous admiration for people who could be earning a lot more who choose low-paying careers because of the positive impact they can have on society in those jobs. They already pay for the choice they made by having less income. To say that now their children should suffer for it is unspeakably cruel and elitist.</p>
<p>One good school teacher making $60,000 is worth a whole lot more to society than a raft of personal injury lawyers or investment bankers making $500,000 each.</p>
<p>Robert Frost might have said “They are all apples and I am all oranges.” You need to compare the related numbers. Here are a few numbers that are relevant. Research expenses of 111,000/FTE have been eliminated, but are probably contributing the higher cost of instruction as no provision are made to exclude professors who are mostly researchers. </p>
<p>
Income/Expenses FTE Williams MIT
Tuition Revenues $22,542.00 $21,339.00 </p>
<p>Instruction Costs $37,742.00 $57,946.00
Academic support $7,603.00 $26,875.00
Institution support $14,610.00 $29,132.00
Student services $10,904.00 $6,680.00
Other core expenses $11,753.00 $-<br>
Total Expenses FTE $82,612.00 $120,633.00 </p>
<p>Full Professor ... $130,453.00 $159,620.00
Associate professor $88,864.00 $109,692.00
Assistant professor $73,820.00 $100,570.00
<p>You can’t pick and choose numbers from different sections and club</p>
<p>Research, Public, Academic, and Institution support are not expenses on the direct education of the students and will still be there even if MIT doesn’t take a single undergraduate student.</p>
<p>Look at MIT Revenue:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>These revenues are going to be there irrespective of any undergraduate student.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why did you left “-171,433” stock market loss in the education cost of the student.</p>
<p>It would have become $120,633.00 + $171,433 ~ $300K</p>
<p>Just highlighting your story Cobart, so people know what I am referring to.</p>
<p>First of all this is not the first time that attendance has been brought up. When I went to college attendance was not an issue in grading. Professors didn’t take attendance, they spent all of their time teaching. Certainly, it illustrates why the student was failing the class, but it is not in and of itself a grading factor.</p>
<p>Was this student an athlete? I was a TA in graduate school and the only time the department got involved with grades was with the athletes.</p>
<p>Also I couldn’t quite tell from your story who the professor backed up. Was it the TA or the student?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again, my complaint about the attendance thing.</p>
<p>I saw this when I was in graduate school, students who had been passed along and were now failing my class because of their lack of understanding of what came before. My professor wouldn’t pass them if they were failing no matter how hard they worked. As he explained it to me, we weren’t doing them any favors by passing them along if they hadn’t mastered the material.</p>
I’m not sure, but I think the very top schools only have need based aid. I guess they figure just letting you attend is enough of a gift for your “merit”.</p>
<p>Simply, flatly, completely wrong. The top schools do not need to give merit aid to attract high quality candidates. They already turn down hundreds of very well qualified candidates that other schools would drool over. They mostly are very generous with need-based aid, but merit aid - nada.</p>
<p>The only exceptions are that some of them have a few endowed scholarships - a donor has made a contribution and designated it for merit scholarships. But these are the exception and play almost no role in the overall aid packages from these schools.</p>
<p>Attendance was an issue in that class because the course had a technology lab component where you had to use its facilities in order to fulfill around 25-30% the final grade. Moreover, like most Profs at my LAC, the Prof in the course used lectures as a means of going beyond and adding to what the assigned readings didn’t cover. If you missed more than a handful of classes, you’d either needed to have good friends to get copies of good notes or be exceedingly resourceful and a quick study in order to keep up as most Profs…especially the oldschool ones like the Prof my roommate TAed for aren’t going to be eager to provide weeks or even months worth of notes for a student who seldom shows up for class without providing documentation of some serious medical or other exceptionally serious emergencies. </p>
<p>As that Prof was very traditional in her grading policies, she supported my TA friend when he failed that student. Student in question wasn’t an athlete, but a full-pay kid who exhibited similar consumerist tendencies of expecting to pass with a B because he(read his parents) were paying full tuition. Such attitudes aren’t going to garner much sympathy from a Prof who upheld standards and a TA who was, like myself, a working-class scholarship student at a private university similar to my LAC.</p>
<p>I have no idea what you meant to say in the above reply by writing “You can’t pick and choose numbers from different sections and club.” </p>
<p>The expenses lines are from the same … reporting lines for both schools. There is a reason why the NCES has this format. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Are you serious or just playful today? Here is a hint: revenues are one thing and expenses quite another. Investment losses are not related to the cost of providing a service. That is Accounting 201, or perhaps Acctg 101 at MIT. :)</p>
<p>Xiggi: The attempt was made to point out that other than cost of Instruction and Services no cost should be included while determining the cost of education of an undergraduate student and that’s why it’s not included by the institutes when computing the sticker price of the tuition for the year.</p>
<p>Consider MIT as a business and undergraduate as one of the core group. The cost associated with the core group proportionate to their share and not all cost can be included into it. </p>
<p>That’s why the Instruction cost and student service cost is categorized separately from others.</p>
<p>Can you enlighten why did you include Institute, and Academic cost to the undergraduate education?</p>
<p>Do you even know what these costs represents?</p>
<p>Quote:
There is a lot of merit aid available, even for the top schools. If a kid is qualified for the top schools, he can easily qualify.</p>
<p>Simply, flatly, completely wrong. The top schools do not need to give merit aid to attract high quality candidates. They already turn down hundreds of very well qualified candidates that other schools would drool over. They mostly are very generous with need-based aid, but merit aid - nada."annasdad#212</p>
<p>Really? I didn’t say the merit came from the schools. There are corporate merit scholarships and others. They can be applied to any schools.</p>
<p>I just received an email (since I last posted) notifying me of a $7500 government grant award - grant, not loan. There is all kinds of money.</p>
<p>Obviously, people who are trusted with the task of collecting the information disagree with you. And, fwiw, you are again confusing your categories. Tuition represent an income for a school. You are mixing expenses and revenues.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is a decision made by the US government.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Is that a rhetorical question?</p>
<p>Academic support are expenses for support services that are an integral part of the institution’s primary mission of instruction, research, or public service and that are not charged directly to these primary programs. Examples include expenses for academic development, academic computing support, course and curriculum development, and academic administration. </p>
<p>Student services are expenses for admissions, registrar activities and activities whose primary purpose is to contribute to students emotional and physical well-being and to their intellectual, cultural and social development outside the context of the formal instructional program. Examples are career guidance, counseling, financial aid administration, student records, athletics, and student health services, except when operated as a self-supporting auxiliary enterprise. </p>
<p>Institutional support are all expenses for the day-to-day operational support of the institution.</p>
<p>A full pay student, who is accepted to Harvard, probably could get a full tuition merit scholarship at less well recognized institutions… at schools many of us would classify as “top” schools. That student could definitely attend a less expensive public school and save money. A lot of FA families have less choice. What they pay for the in-state public is what they will pay at Harvard. For some there is little reason to choose the merit scholarship. Students with strictly merit awards can sometimes stack those awards and actually make money going to college. This is a possibility for a few students in both the full pay and FA categories.</p>
<p>I have heard that, once upon a time, everyone at Harvard was full pay, with a very few exceptions and many profs were dollar a year men. Why did anyone decide to change that system?</p>
<p>I know lots of HYP students and recent grads and wouldn’t describe any of them as entitled-acting.</p>
<p>“A full pay student, who is accepted to Harvard, probably could get a full tuition merit scholarship at less well recognized institutions… at schools many of us would classify as “top” schools”#219alh</p>
<p>Corporate scholarships can be used anywhere - and I am including the very top schools.</p>