<p>To echo Hunt’s comment above, I haven’t read every post, but I will just say that as somebody who frequently recruits students into PhD programs, I would be just as impressed by an application with a degree from Williams or Amherst, or Grinnell or fill in the blank here…a HUGE host of others, as i would be from one from Harvard, Yale, or U of I or fill in the blank here…another huge host of others. </p>
<p>Seriously, it would make not one iota of a difference to us (by us I mean not just where I am now but the tippy top schools I’ve worked at). Experiences are yes, quite different but students come out equally prepared from a HUGE set of great LACs, private and public universities. The educational differences, IMHO, are grossly overrated. I assure you, once in grad school or later as someone on the academic tenure track, <em>one can not tell where someone went to undergrad!</em></p>
<p>One consideration I have regarding LACs involves the networking factor. Most of them are very small, some even smaller than my kids’ high school. Isn’t there some value in having more classmates to meet and more alums to network with?</p>
<p>Adding after looking it up: Both Amherst and Williams are smaller than my kids’ high school.</p>
<p>Bay…some would argue that you will actually get to KNOW the folks at your LAC in a better way than at a larger university…thus actually making networking more meaningful.</p>
<p>Adding after looking it up: Both Amherst and Williams are smaller than my kids’ high school.</p>
<p>Where D1 attended college was smaller than D2’s high school. ( it hasn’t hurt her re: networking however)</p>
<p>I think size is an important point. While you may get to know similar numbers of people while in school, when you are out of school- you will have a greater chance to meet other alumna of larger schools.</p>
<p>I would think the factor would be more whether a certain LAC/Uni has sufficient caring and involved alums in the areas/industries of interest would be more critical than the mere size of a given institution. </p>
<p>While it may appear that smaller LACs may have a more serious problem with this, I’ve observed similar issues at research universities. One common gripe I heard from dozens of undergrads at one Ivy was how most career services and alums willing to network are dominated by the Ibanking and the financial industry which they felt neglected classmates who weren’t interested or sometimes able to attain a position in those fields.</p>
<p>As for comparing high schools to LACs by population…my LAC was around the same size as my NYC public magnet at the time I graduated.</p>
<p>My daughter attends a residential LAC. I personally think the reason is to keep more of a community feel to it, not the economic advantage to the school. When there are less than 1800 students, if a majority lived off campus I think the closeness of the student body would be considerably diminished.</p>
<p>I think it’s good for a school to discourage students living off campuses. I don’t see what the big rush is to get students off campus and into apartments. You have the rest of your life for that. D’s college has virtually 100% living on the campus, and it’s a bubble, and I’m just fine and dandy with that. I agree it provides a community feel.</p>
<p>Re whining about being full-pay: Do you have any IDEA how fortunate someone is to be full-pay, to be able to go through the whole college decision process without having to add worries about finances to the mix? To get all “well, boy, I really envy those FA kids, they got perk x and perk y” … sounds really, really churlish and small. That’s like saying I envy the Questbridge kids. Uh, no. Wouldn’t trade for a million years.</p>
<p>As for networks - Bay, you’ve clearly never encountered the Wellesley alumnae network, they may be small, but they are fierce :-)</p>
<p>I also don’t get why people are distinguishing between liberal arts majors at LAC’s and liberal arts majors at universities. What the heck is the difference between the English lit major at an LAC and an English lit major at a research university? I continue to find the whole division completely arbitrary.</p>
<p>Every parent has a choice. Every day they are a parent they have a choice. You can pursue your career bliss unmindful of earnings and the costs of college ahead. You can pay attention, make career decisions that are informed by the financial responsibilities of educating your kids. We made those choices, just like everyone makes those choices. We’ve just discovered that making responsible choices has made us sort of the dupes in this game. We would have been rewarded by being less responsible parents and not saving for college and not conducting our careers with an eye toward shouldering high college costs down the road.</p>
<p>Lucky to have the choice right now? I think we’re the ones with the really tough choice. There is hardly any choice to be made if your kid gets offered generous FA. If your kid does not, then the choice is, in fact, tortuously difficult, especially now with the extremely hostile economic environment.</p>
<p>We can fathom the enormous costs at the moment but who in this country truly has job security? Who really is confident that their college savings accounts are invested safely? And who really knows if that pedigree will be worth a quarter million dollars?</p>
<p>This is a moment when a lot of assumptions are being upended and a very good moment to stop and really weight the pros and cons of such a decision.</p>
<p>Maybe this is for a different thread, but what would you say to your daughter about paying for her brother to go to Harvard and sending her Rutgers, even though she may aspire to go to similar calibre schools as Harvard?</p>
<p>No one prevents any capable-of-full-pay parents from saying - honey, I will fund up to $X. Or I will fund up to the cost of our state flagship but no more. Indeed, I know quite a few people whom I suspect could pay full freight anywhere who “top off” at the cost of the state flagship. Not what I would do, but they can spend their money however they like and they needn’t answer to me, that’s for sure.</p>
<p>I guess I just don’t get the purpose of comparing to other people spend their money, or what perks other people might get that I might not. I don’t feel like a dupe for paying full freight, because I’m not looking around and counting other people’s money in the first place. IOW, you’re spending your time being annoyed that so-and-so who makes $150,000 still gets $X in aid and you don’t. I don’t care. It’s not my business, it’s not my problem, and I still don’t want to trade with the family who is making $150,000 and trying to send 2 kids off to elite schools at the same time. </p>
<p>As for whether that “pedigree” (odd choice of words) is worth a quarter million dollars … as long as my kids are self-sufficient and happy, that’s all I want. Seriously. It’s not about my ego and it’s not about them having big, fancy schmancy jobs and it’s certainly not as though I expect them to pay me back. There is no reason for me not to expect that they’ll wind up gainfully employed. Sure, it might not be 1 month after graduation the way it was in my day, but so what. And I still don’t see why you are separating out Harvard et al versus Williams et al on the arbitrary distinction of LAC vs uni. Either you believe an elite education is worth full pay, or you don’t … but saying that Harvard is worth $55K and Williams not is about as pointless as saying that Harvard is worth $55K and Yale isn’t.l You’ve not articulated a single actual reason for this distinction other than Joe the Dry Cleaner doesn’t know Williams but he’s heard of Harvard.</p>
<p>^ That’s what makes this complicated. Without offending any sensibilities here, we would probably more readily spend a great deal on a school with big reputation than on one that was less known. He is planning to fund his medical school through savings from his job and loans. If we didn’t spend a lot on her undergrad we would make a lot available to her for graduate work, house downpayment, etc.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, by “worth” it I mean simply will they be able to be financially secure. Sorry, that matters a lot to us.</p>
<p>But you keep thinking Williams, Amherst, etc. don’t have “big reputations” because Joe the Dry Cleaner doesn’t know that. And I think what some of us are trying to tell you is that in the circles that matter, their reputations are plenty fine and equal to Harvard et al.</p>
<p>Yes, moderately well-off parents have a choice. They can deplete their savings and/or scale back their lifestyles to send their kids to pricy private schools, or they can take advantage of the many far less costly alternatives, including those they support with their tax dollars. </p>
<p>I don’t think there are any torturous choices for those of us who are full-pay. It’s a blessing. One we’ve worked very hard and saved to get to, but it’s not “torturous.”</p>
<p>I don’t think that many people qualify for finaid because they chose to follow their career bliss instead of going for the big bucks. There’s not a lot of bliss in many lower-paying occupations. I don’t think the “if you want your kids to go to top schools, you should have worked harder and become more successful” argument holds a lot of water. If it does, shouldn’t people who bristle at paying full freight simply have done the same, and become even more successful? Or might there be limitations to how much individual success is possible?</p>
<p>You seem to be saying that, if you hadn’t been as financially successful, you’d have been rewarded with finaid. But that would also have meant fewer material goods, less home value, and a host of benefits your children would have done without - enrichment experiences, private educations (or, in our case, a high-performing public school district in a well-off area), etc. I would rather have given my kids the opportunities we were fortunate to give them and not qualify for finaid than have faced the challenges and limitations of raising them without the same kind of resources.</p>
<p>sewhappy, if your kid is as smart as you say she is, it’s possible that a number of outstanding schools WILL offer her generous FA – in the form of institutional merit aid. No, not Harvard, but really good schools nevertheless. </p>
<p>If you don’t know the universe of possibilities, then I strongly urge you, as I have before, to talk to the experienced college counseling department at your daughter’s private prep school.</p>
<p>Sewhappy … I am paying full freight for S at NU. There is another young woman from my kids’ high school – I don’t know her parents’ financial situation, but I’m going to assume reasonably comfortable upper middle class – who is going there on a sports scholarship. Should I feel like a “dupe” because I’m paying full freight and they aren’t, even though maybe they could afford to do so? Because I don’t. Good for her for getting a sports scholarship! I guess I just can’t get to the point of comparing what I bring in and what I spend with other people and keeping tabs on who has it better and who doesn’t. Because there will always be people better off and people worse off, and I find it best just to be thankful for what I have and what I am able to do for my kids. Look, there are plenty of families on CC who sent their kids to elite private or boarding schools which I couldn’t do – I don’t spend my time resenting them, so I’m not sure why I should spend my time resenting anyone else.</p>