<p>I think people who believe that Cornell, say is worth more money than Williams because Cornell is an Ivy and/or more people have heard of it are not looking at what real value is. Both are good schools and one is likely to be a better choice for your child. and if that is unfair because Williams is the creme de la creme and Cornell is just creme (or cream, given its honorable land grant/agricultural school connections), I actually do know people my children’s age who have chosen Williams over Yale (gasp) because they felt it would provide the experience and education that fitted them better. Truly, education at the top levels just isn’t that easily quantifiable in the monetary sense. Of course I know that there are many high schools, both public and private, where LACs are not considered quite as good. I chalk it up to lack of sophistication!</p>
<p>ALH, NO, NOT true, The “unthinkable” and “unexpected” can cause a family to “just” miss FA.
A line has to be drawn, so there it is. Like it or not.</p>
<p>A family can “just” qualify, too. </p>
<p>Life IS unfair.</p>
<p>People on this site are wonderful to care sooo darn much about their kids’ educations.
BUT let us be careful NOT to create resentment and misunderstandings.</p>
<p>Those whose have fewer resources and fewer choices are somehow allowed to diss those who are have more. It is not a pleasant place for a kid to be that did not CHOOSE their family lifestyle. Especially if that kid bears no attitude towards those who are different from him/herself, and believe me, those exist. Generalizations are not helpful. The tokens do not prove the existence of a majority.</p>
<p>Why enhance this resentment and envy? The economics are what they are. Please all stop using money as a way to label someone. There are MANY factors in a person’s life that determine their attitudes and also their fortune. </p>
<p>Many are suffering and have suffered. Many are afraid of the future, and of what it holds for their children. This is life and human nature.</p>
<p>Thank God there are some who have wealth, and invest it in the economy and to support institutions that hopefully help others with less. </p>
<p>Thank God there are those who do not do everything for money.</p>
<p>The world needs ALL types. And so does the economy. So let us try to work together, get along, and create a better world for the next generations. Let us try not to be tooooo set in our individual ideas and ways.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My daugther at Amherst know MANY that chose AC over HYPSM. As PG and others have said many times over, those who matter know that good LAC’s have the same grad/prof school placement as the “others.” People here in my area geta a glazed over look when they hear Amherst, and most ask if it is a community college when I tell them that they only have 1800 students. That’s when I just smile and nod 
I could give a rats a**. Let them think what they want.</p>
<p>PG,
The way you write, it sounds like writing a check for $220K is no big deal!</p>
<p>Regardless of the size of my savings account, I won’t spend that much money without investigating the value of what I am getting for it, including looking at what others pay for the same product and name-recogniton. The fact that you don’t care about these things doesn’t make them unimportant.</p>
<p>So, what’s the difference in name recognition between HYP and Williams/Amherst/Middlebury? </p>
<p>Among Joe the Dry Cleaner, they may have heard of HYP and not WAM, but in either case, name recognition among Joe the Dry Cleaner just means he smiles at you when you hand him your dry cleaning order. It doesn’t mean anything.</p>
<p>Among the circles that you’re trying to get into in the first place, those who matter have heard of WAM and accrue to it the same benefits / meaning as HYP.</p>
<p>So again, why does it matter that the masses haven’t heard of something? </p>
<p>Should I have second thoughts about sending D off to Wellesley because when we went to Bed Bath & Beyond, the clerks there confused it with Illinois Wesleyan? That’s their problem. That isn’t D’s problem, at all.</p>
<p>I still go back to the absolutely brilliant quote that bcllintonk has when it’s revealed that his daughter goes to Haverford, which engenders lots of “huhs” in his Minneapolis neighborhood. Yes, it’s a very good small liberal arts school near Philadelphia. No, you haven’t heard of it. Oh well. That’s exactly how I feel about the whole thing. </p>
<p>Excellence is worth paying for, IMO. Whether other people “know” about it has zero to do with the actual excellence.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What others pay for the same product doesn’t impact the value I get from it. As an example, D’s and S’s schools cost (roughly) the same and (roughly) both give good FA - but S’s school also offers a bunch of sports scholarships, so more kids are getting a “free ride.” That’s how the school chooses to dispense its funds. How does that impact anything, from my perspective?</p>
<p>I do not care what others are paying for the same product, as long as the product is what I want and something I could afford. </p>
<p>As far as name-recognition, it is not whether a Joe-the-dry-cleaner would recognize the name, it is if people who would possibly hire or admit your kid would recognize a name (or give it more weight). That for me, is worth something to me.</p>
<p>Someone from D1’s high school had a full scholarship to Duke, but turned it down for Yale. The family claimed Yale was a better fit, but it probably had more to do with name recognition.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’d also add ultra-elitism typified by the “HYPSMCC or bust” mentality and the perception that LACs are not strong in STEM fields…both of which were somewhat prevalent among some annoying twits within the top 25-30% of the kids in my graduating class and many teachers at my math/science public magnet high school. </p>
<p>However, even among those in that group who do respect LACs as being on par…they do divide them up so that they will split hairs between SWA/Reed* and schools like Wellesley, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Pomona, Bowdoin, Barnard, Vassar and Carleton. Forget about it when they get to LACs ranked outside the top 10 like Grinnell, Oberlin, Kenyon, and especially Davidson. Was interesting and a relief that faculty on grad admissions committees and employers in the real world don’t split hairs to that anal of an extent.</p>
<p>My experience with my kids’ private school, they tend to promote LACs over large well respected unis. They recommend Haverford, Pomona, Colgate, Colby, over JHU, Rice, Cornell.</p>
<p>PG,
You are free to believe that your degree from Middlebury carries as much attraction as a degree from Harvard when you apply for that job in Oregon. I don’t share that belief. And the fact that I don’t, doesn’t make you right and me wrong.</p>
<p>Frankly, it may be that neither one of those matters as much as the U of Oregon in that case. And it’s not all about “getting a job.” We returned from a family vacation to Europe this summer – we were privileged enough to be able to take a nice trip – and I don’t look for “payback” on that either. The experience itself is the point. Which is why I don’t see a difference in the experience of Harvard vs Williams that would make me say “one is worth $55K and the other isn’t.” (There may be differences in the experience of H vs W, but those fall under personal preference differences, not “good” and “bad.”)</p>
<p>Cobrat, Davidson has consistently been in the USNWR top ten for at least a decade, and deserves to be! One reason people at large in the Northeast tend to overlook its merits is because isn’t in the Northeast. This has been discussed at length on CC over the years, and is an interesting subtext of the whole LAC issue.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>See, that’s NOT elitism, IMO! That’s wannabes-who-don’t-know-better. It’s rather like the person who decks herself out in Louis Vuitton monograms head to toe because she thinks that that will impress people, versus the person who quietly goes for the Loro Piana cashmere. I don’t think “true elite” have a HYPSMCC or bust" mentality at all. I think there are a lot of wannabes who think that the true elite think that way.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t think it will impact you at all. For me, it tells me something about the uni’s values and priorities and endowment.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Come on, PG, of course getting a job is a huge part of the college selection equation. </p>
<p>No one here said the “experience” at Harvard is better than at Williams, but prospects for employment matters a heck of a lot to a lot of people.</p>
<p>But many top LAC’s give aid that is equivalent in kind to what many top universities give. So what’s the difference? I think there would be a point if top LAC’s offered minimal financial aid and top unis were swimming in it. But is there really an appreciable difference between what (say) Wellesley and Northwestern would have offered my kids if they were in need of FA?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This seems to be a private school phenomenon.</p>
<p>I don’t think that most public school guidance counselors are as familiar with LACs as their counterparts at private schools. </p>
<p>My daughter attended a selective IB program in a public school. IB is very liberal arts focused, so one would think that these kids would be attracted to LACs. But in fact, most went to the big privates (such as the three you mentioned, Northwestern, Brown, Wash U, or Penn) or top-ranked state schools (such as UVa, UNC, or Michigan). And quite a few accepted the large merit scholarships offered by our own state U. Only a small handful chose LACs.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Speak for yourself. My daughter will be full pay at most top LACs. There are several my daughter is considering, many of which are over 55K per year. Although our EFC is quite high, I can assure you that we cannot afford this. We have managed to save a good portion in a 529, but it will be quickly depleted in a 55K+ college. She knows that there are more affordable options out there, those of which will provide an excellent education. We have already gone over the finances with my daughter. </p>
<p>Option A: In-state flagship university Honors program, about 17K per year.</p>
<p>Option B: In-state public LAC, about 24K per year.</p>
<p>Option C: Merit Aid @ private lower tier LAC, about 30K per year.</p>
<p>Option D: Top tier LAC, 55K per year full pay. (Probably will be over 60K per year by graduation)</p>
<p>Right now she is favoring Option A. Total price would be 68K. The top LAC that she initially liked will be 220K. That is a huge difference.</p>
<p>Check out Debt-Free U by Zac Bissonette. Excellent book.</p>
<p>Right now she is favoring Option A. Total price would be 68K. The top LAC that she initially liked will be 220K. That is a huge difference.</p>
<p>That is a huge difference- good thing she has several strong choices.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Very true. Options A-C are all realistic for us. Option D will only work if she gets merit aid, but this unlikely at most top tier LACs.</p>