<p>van wilder majored in leisure studies</p>
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<p>Really? There are plenty of tutoring signs around Havard yard for subjects such as Algebra, pre-Calc, Calc etc. I am wondering why they have the signs if no one needs the service!? Oh, you mean the SAT? Funny.</p>
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<p>I was wondering about that too as I actually took a Stats course with several dozen Harvard econ majors and a grad student fulfilling quant requirements one summer. Most of them were complaining about the Prof’s teaching methods, pacing(too fast), and inaccessibility and worried to the point of actually failing or doing poorly(Cs, Ds). They also constantly asked me for help with homework and explaining things after the end of almost every lecture as they somehow had the impression I was “intelligent” and knew what was going on in the course. Ha! If they only knew how I was a C/D math student back at my NYC math/science public magnet high school. :D</p>
<p>However, the pacing of that Harvard stats course was much more manageable than any of my high school classes and I ended up doing exceedingly well. If all my high school courses were that reasonably paced…I would not have been known as one of my high school graduating class’s slackers.</p>
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<p>Likewise, it sure would be a great idea if people in other countries stopped acting as though they “know” all the good American universities, and stopped acting as though “I myself haven’t heard of it” = “it can’t possibly be any good.” I mean, most Americans at least have the honesty to admit that they don’t know much about quality of other universities and aren’t in a position to judge. The judgment on American universities from those in other lands, however, is based on hearsay, not reality, and overvalues certain universities far beyond their actual prominence and undervalues many good schools, including but not limited to many LAC’s.</p>
<p>^ ^ ^ So if this is the case, isn’t perception reality? If people around the world think HYPSM are the best and are far superior to other good schools and a person is competing in a global market, doesn’t the graduate of HYPSM have a distinct advantage?</p>
<p>No, in the same way that Rolex and Mercedes don’t automatically become superior cars and watches just because the average person thinks they are. Real car and watch aficionados might have other answers to that question.</p>
<p>OP reporting back. Took DD to see two LACs (elite ones) and she thought they were very, very nice places but too small for her. She wants more critical mass of humanity on campus. So that simplifies her list.</p>
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<p>One reason for the lack of valuing LACs outside the US is that with some exceptions, LACs are mostly a US phenomenon. Most in other countries who aren’t already familiar with the US higher ed landscape don’t know what to make of LACs as they usually don’t exist in their societies. </p>
<p>Also, I’m not sure about the “most Americans at least have the honesty to admit bit…” from my experiences and what I’ve heard from college classmates from different regions of the country. Several Southern and Midwest classmates put up with a lot of ignorant commentary from neighbors, acquaintances, and even some employers because they didn’t feel our LAC or some majors(i.e. East Asian Studies) were “good”. I certainly had some firsthand experience with the last…albeit mostly on the extremely mild side with the exception of one nutty interviewer who automatically stereotyped me as a “Commie-pinko radical” instantly because of my alma mater’s “reputation”. </p>
<p>Another factor is that for many foreign students, they came from societies where uni rankings are taken much more seriously and where you go can directly determine whether you get certain highly prestigious/paying jobs or not. This is especially the case in most East Asian countries where failing to make it into the top 3-5 unis may mean being completely shut out from positions in prestigious civil service departments and promotion prospects to mid-top executive corporate positions. </p>
<p>What’s worse is that in some cases…the undergrad degree matters much more than the grad degree as one Japanese student who graduated from Bucknell discovered after he got a graduate degree from Waseda U, a Top 3 Japanese school and was told by the corporate recruiter that wasn’t good enough. However, once he gained admission as a “transfer student” to UTokyo and graduated with their BA, that same corporation and others were falling all over themselves to recruit him as an employee.</p>
<p>Our son earned $30 an hour tutoring high school kids in Cambridge in all sorts of subjects, although mostly APs, SAT and ACT. He earned $45 an hour tutoring adults in the GRE and GMAT (neither of which he ever actually sat for!). </p>
<p>Those signs are often posted by Harvard kids trying to make some money.</p>
<p>Cobrat, regarding your experience at a Harvard summer class. Those are generally considered easier than term time classes. For example, premeds will sometimes take orgo in the summer because it’s generally thought to be a bit easier. Also, a great many of your classmates in that class were almost certainly high school kids looking to get a bit of a hook by taking an actual Harvard class. So I wouldn’t read too much into your good performance in the class.</p>
<p>Oh, and the stats for economics requirements is generally considered one of the easiest requirements.</p>
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<p>I don’t know what’s so hard about this. Here’s a university that has a liberal arts school, an engineering school, maybe a nursing school, music school, etc. Poof, take away the others and put the liberal arts school on its own. That’s all it is. </p>
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<p>Yes. We’re all aware of that on College Confidential. Many times over. Many many MANY times over as it’s repeated ad nauseum to us. We’re all aware of that mentality, and we’re all aware of the apparent inability for people in those countries to understand that just because in their countries there are just a handful of excellent schools and the rest are considered mediocre, that it isn’t like that here.</p>
<p>Doesn’t make them better universities or cars or watches, the perception of the employer is that U Tokyo is better. Global perception. It’s not the average joe-its employers in other parts of the world. It’s not just there perception but it is their culture. You must graduate from top university-American or foreign. How many times have foreign students expressed the same thing on this board. Sense of failure from not being accepted at HYPSM. Who do you think there parents are who taught them this? Foreign Employers-they are the only one’s with means to send there children here. Don’t you think that if they want their children in these schools that they want to employ people from these schools.</p>
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<p>And you’ve just proven the point! Oberlin doesn’t suddenly become a “worse” school because some people who don’t know better don’t know anything about it, or engage in stereotypes that only certain types of people go there. Similarly, [insert elite college or university that is not HYPSM] doesn’t suddenly become a “worse” school because some people who don’t know better don’t know anything about them. It matters not whether the people-who-don’t-know-better are people from a different region of the country or a different region of the world. Quality is quality, regardless of how widely known it is.</p>
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<p>That is a common assumption that seems to have turned out to be a mistake for the Harvard econ majors who took the class to make up for the failing grade during the regular year or those looking for an edge. Incidentally, only a handful of high school kids were in the class and they also came asking for help with homework and explanations of the lectures. </p>
<p>From what I heard from them, this Prof was much harder, pacing the course far too quickly, and was
just as inaccessible as the Profs they had during the regular semester. This was underscored when dozens of them tried to complain to the dean about the prof being “too unreasonable”, “too demanding”, and going “too quickly” to no avail. The atmosphere was such that I knew it was prudent to take the fifth when asked what I got as my final grade from them as the Prof graded on a strict curve and it was apparent most of them struggled to pass with far lower grades. Also accidentally overheard that the Harvard grad student ended up with a C when he pleaded with the Prof after class to change his grade so he can continue on his program.</p>
<p>Well, justdafacts, if it’s so important for them to impress people who make decisions based on hearsay rather than actual fact, then have at it. That’s rather like deciding that I want a fine watch and so I’ll go buy a Rolex simply because more random people on the street would cite “Rolex” as the best watch even though there might be better watches suited to my needs. Or deciding that I want a fine handbag and so I’ll go buy a Louis Vuitton simply because more random people on the street might cite that even though there might be even more refined, better-made handbags that suited my needs. If you want to live by “but what will other people think of my decisions?” regardless of the actual substance of the decision, be my guest. I think it’s a stupid way to live, personally.</p>
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<p>So in other words, when people say things that are rooted in ignorance (because they mistakenly think HYPSM are the only worthwhile universities in the US), the way to deal with it is to REINFORCE their ignorance by bending yourself to make sure you fit their rooted-in-ignorance beliefs! Good grief – what a fear-based mentality. What other people say / think is more important than the actual <em>truth</em>, apparently.</p>
<p>Those are not ignorant people who would have no financial impact on those students when they return to their home countries. Right or wrong, if their degrees in the US are not going to help them get a job back home than they are worthless to them. It is not a matter of buying name brand in order to impress everyday Joe. We can´t also use our narrow US benchmark to decide how people from other countries should behave.</p>
<p>If I lived outside of US and was considering sending my kids to the US to be educated, unless it´s a top notch school (with the right name recognition), I wouldn´t waste my money.</p>
<p>it depends on future plans. For example, if Med. School is planned, then free tuition/full ride UG makes the most sense. So, it all depends what is the final goal.</p>
<p>Thank you, Cobrat:</p>
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<p>There’s so much unbridled ego and bizarre eavesdropping going on in the post that I have just reached my entertainment quota for the day!</p>
<p>PG I think you keep missing the point. It is not trying to impress ignorant people. It is meeting cultural expectation or belief. Just because you think an expectation or belief is based in ignorance, does not make it unimportant to the culture that believes it or expects it. Talk about an ugly American point of view. If you want to be employed or do business overseas where this expectation is prevalent, it helps if you graduate from HYPSM. I believe other posters have affirmed this, especially those students from overseas that show such disappointment for failing to get in.</p>