<p>Right now, like many people, I'm trying to decide where to go to college next year. I've narrowed my choice down to Northwestern (WCAS) and a small, top 10 liberal arts school (not Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore). I'm kind of leaning towards NU, here's why:</p>
<p>+amazing academics
+prestige/reputation/name recognition (this is kind of stupid, but it still matters to me)
+bigger= more diversity, more people to meet
+more varied social scene
+great internship/research/job opportunities
+known for having a good econ dept, my intended major (this might change)
+really smart students
+overall I think it is the strongest school I was accepted to</p>
<p>These are the main things drawing me towards NU. the other school has a campus/location that I like better, and I used to think I was set on going to an LAC but now I'm not so sure. </p>
<p>However, these are some concerns I have about NU (many that I've read about on this site) that might make me go to another school:</p>
<p>-Large class sizes
-Professors that don't care about undergrad teaching, only research
-bad advising
-no individual attention
-really competitive students
-lack of community feel and school spirit I'd get at an LAC
-Also, I know that NU is know for programs like theater, music, engineering, journalism, but I've heard that if you want a liberal arts education, WCAS isn't particularly strong as these other programs at northwestern, esp. if you aren't in some program like MMSS or HPME (which I'm not)</p>
<p>Are these legitimate concerns, or are a lot of them just bad misconceptions? Are the academics at NU worth giving up the intimacy and individual attention of a top LAC?</p>
<p>I have a daughter at NU Medill and another at Swarthmore; I think each chose correctly. The adjustment at NU was a bit harder b/c of the quarter system and size; Swat made for a less stressful transition from HS to college because of the 1st semester pass/fail. I personally think more schools should follow that policy.</p>
<p>The strengths you identify for NU are a given, so you need to weigh the knowns from your LAC against those. Focus on the strengths not the perceived deficiencies. It will be up to you to navigate either school to maximize the strengths and sidestep the weaknesses. Good luck!</p>
<p>Btw, Chicago is a marvelous city. Very few leave once they’ve taken root.</p>
<p>I was sold on LACs until my daughter saw Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore and several others and decided they were too small for her. She settled on NU, got in ED, and had an undergrad experience so great that it would make most people envious.
Having watched her go through 4 years at NU, i now think that she was completely right: she got everything she could have gotten out of an LAC plus more. She took some large, but plenty of small classes. She had close relationships with a number of brilliant and caring professors, and her senior thesis advisor worked hard to make sure that my daughter got a transformative capstone experience out of that grueling process.<br>
With the benefit of hindsight, I am now really glad that she didn’t listen to us when we tried to steer her towards the great LACs.</p>
<p>I’d suggest making your NU netID account and poking around in the CTEC course evaluations–it’d probably be a good idea to read some of those, if you’re concerned about your future profs. Since I’m not, you know, actually attending yet, I can’t say anything about the rest.</p>
<p>counsel,
I have a son at NU SoC and a son at Swarthmore. I also think mine both made the correct decision for themselves.</p>
<p>sprucemoose, my son at NU has class sizes this quarter of 12,15,30 and 134 (the latter is a lecture format and has a discussion section with 15 students.)</p>
<p>My son (junior at NU) has had plenty of individual attention from several profs…including a continuing strong connection with his freshman-year advisor (frosh advisors in Weinberg also teach the 15-student frosh writing seminar). And he has a great, accessible advisor in his major who knows him well. While he has had plenty of large lecture classes as a poli sci major, he’s had an equal number of small (15-25) poli sci classes and small/mid size classes in math and foreign language. He doesn’t mind the large lectures – those are ones he can defer the reading on while he preps for an exam in another class. </p>
<p>Also seems like NU has TONS of school spirit – not just related to Big 10 athletics but lots of general purple pride.</p>
<p>Kids at NU seem to want to do well, but he has never felt any cut-throat competition – on the contrary, students are very helpful to each other (sharing notes, explaining difficult concepts, reading each other’s draft papers, etc.)</p>
<p>-As an econ-major, you’re probably bound to have large class sizes anywhere for a while.
-As for professors not caring, that is actually one complaint that I have never heard associated with NU, and when I sat in on a class and asked students it never came up. Also, I know that for the Kellogg certificate at NU, a lot of the professors actually like the undergrads more because they are smarter than the graduate students xD (they’re more used to studying/going to school and more familiar with the math and stuff, so they tend to understand the concepts more easily).
-NU gives you a multiple advisors, so one is bound to be amazing. Also, one thing I have heard from everyone is that it has great advising, especially when it comes to getting internships and planning your schedule and things like that.
-As for the individual attention, i’ve never heard of it as a problem, and it isn’t too big of a school or anything.
-As an econ-major, you’re bound to be with competitive students anywhere. As for Northwestern, the students seemed more cooperative though, and it’s not like they all wanted to go into business or one industry (which usually makes it competitive).
-NU has decent school spirit. Sports are decent too, so there is definitely some school spirit at the least. My sister goes to a LAC, and they actually don’t have a lot of school spirit. Also, it’s not too big of school so there is somewhat of a community feel. And they also offer “residential colleges” and such to give you that more communal, close-knit feeling.
-WCAS is actually very strong. Econ at Northwestern is definitely top 10, too (USNWR doesnt rank undergrad econ, but graduate econ is just as good of a reflection of the undergrad department). Also, WCAS kids have a TON of research opportunities (as well as everyone at NU), and they have a good career services and alumni center to help you get internships and such. </p>
<p>I think a lot of the concerns are misconceptions. NU is not as big of a school as one may think. The administration does care about its students, and they give a lot of money in terms of planning events and allowing their students to do certain things such as study abroad (eg. they’ll find a way to get you to study abroad if you’re gonna have trouble fitting it in your schedule, and they also give a lot of grants). One of the reasons i like NU is that it gave me that individual focus/care of a LAC, in addition to being a well known, bigger-sized university.</p>
<p>Funny - I have never heard ANY of the concerns you mentioned about Northwestern! Not sure where on cc you heard them, but I’m pretty sure it wasn’t on the NU board. ;-D</p>
<p>The student-teacher ratio at NU is 7:1, and our D (freshman this year) has found the school to be the PERFECT size.</p>
<p>Aside from intro classes (which usually have smaller discussion sections), most class sizes are pretty small.</p>
<p>From my experience, students helped each other out.</p>
<p>As for LACs, they have their plus and minuses (as does NU), but due to their small size, really feels like high school when it comes to the social scene (it’s like living in a bubble where people know about everybody’s business; much like grad school).</p>
<p>I don’t know where you got all your “con” information from, but I truly don’t remember seeing those complaints anywhere including this site. Actually, it’s total opposite, I believe…</p>
<p>It’s been less than a year since my son’s only a freshman (econ major); however, compared to many of his friends’ schools, top ranked colleges nationwide</p>
<ul>
<li>NU does have smaller classes.</li>
<li>NU’s professors seem to care about each student.</li>
<li>NU assigned him an adviser who seemed to know the area of study he’s interested in and he gave some reliable advises.</li>
<li>NU students work hard but never killing each other. My son keeps telling us how smart yet nice everyone is at NU…</li>
<li>NU does have great school spirit. I don’t know how you would compare LAC’s school spirit with the spirit NU students find at an athletic event.</li>
<li>Like many people mentioned above, many majors at WCAS including econ always rank top 10.</li>
</ul>
<p>As a parent, we guided both of our sons away from LAC’s…we always felt that college was more than just academics and that their ability to “grow” as a person would be enhanced at a mid-sized university (rather than an LAC). We agree with the poster that wrote that a small LAC would feel “high schoolish”…especially by junior and/or senior year. Certainly, there’s something to be said for individual attention…but, that’s our “two cents” in the way we thought through this experience.</p>
<p>Those are some great points, mtldad - thanks a lot As someone who’s trying to choose between an LAC and Northwestern, it helps to understand your point of view!</p>
<p>aangel42,
I must respectfully disagree with mtldad’s point of view. I currently have a student at NU and a student at a Top 10 LAC (one of Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams.) The LAC is far more than just about academics. He’s on a sports team and in an acappella group for example. He does not think it is “high schoolish” and his older brother also graduated from the same LAC and did not think it resembled high school in any manner. For some students the education at a top notch LAC is a better fit than the education at a mid-size university. For some, the opposite is true. In this family, different choices have been made for different students and it has worked out for the best. :)</p>
<p>@momof3sons…Thrilled that both your kids are enjoying their experience. Couldn’t agree with you more on each kid is different…but, that being said, that was our guidance to our children. My wife went to a top LAC, by her junior year, she was going “stir-crazy”. I went to a school similar to NU and thought that the size was fantastic for exploring my interests…by my senior year, I actually thought it could have been even larger…so, that being said, each kid is different. Example, both our sons narrowed their decision to Northwestern and WashU/St Louis. After tough decisions for both of them, older son chose WashU (class of '11) and it looks like younger son will be choosing Northwestern (class of '16)…for both of them, we think they’re making the right decisions for their nature (and we loved being WashU parents!)…so, absolutely “fit” is everything. But, no matter what, an LAC is small and a prospective student needs to really take that into account…they’re 18 today, but in three or four years, they’ll be 21 or 22 and far different people than they are today…</p>
<p>While the educational and other experiences may not be “high schoolish”, the social experience in many ways is so - just due to the fact of the smaller size of LACs.</p>
<p>As I stated before, it’s the same way for grad school (which education-wise is even further away from HS); the small size makes way for “living in a fishbowl” - gossip abounds and everybody knows about each others biz.</p>
<p>@K&s…I think the difference in grad school is that it becomes an institution to go to school…I think their social life moves in many different directions in grad school (at least mine did)…but, undergrad, for sure, it’s very much a fishbowl…</p>
<p>I have a D at Williams and my other D is considering Northwestern theatre (just returned from a visit!). Did you get to visit both? If so, what are your OWN gut feelings?</p>
<p>Small LACs are VERY different in MANY ways from top universities. I’m afraid this is really your OWN personal decision because some people will thrive more in one, and some in others. It depends on your personality, your major, so many things. You could feel cramped at a small LAC and not be able to find a boyfriend/girlfriend b/c of a very small pool, OR you could be with a small group of really close friends. Or both. At a university, you could be disappointed by a large lower level class, or disappear into anonymity, or you could find your niche or work with a professor in the graduate school, or both. </p>
<p>Pure academics: A school like Williams does have grade ‘deflation,’ so that it’s quite difficult to get A’s; it also has the semester system. NU works on a bell shaped curve for its science/math classes at least (my D stayed with these students when we visited!); it has the trimester system. </p>
<p>I could go on for a while, but honestly it really depends on your own needs and your ‘fit.’ If you haven’t visited and can afford to do so, I would urge you to and to stay overnight at each school. Ask the current students questions. If you can’t afford to, I"d go on Facebook and try to connect with individual students in your major. One student doesnt’ necessarily tell you anything, but many students might. Good luck.</p>
I also think mine both made the correct decision for themselves.</p>