I don't think Northwestern's for me, but I want to be convinced otherwise...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Northwestern University
1

<p>Hi all--</p>

<p>I'm a rising HS senior and NU is one of the schools I'm considering. I've heavily considered schools like Oberlin, Reed, Vassar, UChicago, and Wesleyan to fit with my personality and my academic interest.</p>

<p>However, I realized that being near a city is very, very important for me, as a lot of the schools I just mentioned have suffocating campuses and not much going on in the area. I've gone past NU on the way to see relatives, and from what I can tell, it looks gorgeous and everything, and a place where I could possibly be very happy.</p>

<p>I am a little concerned that my personality doesn't fit in with the Northwestern mindset though (the "Social Scene" thread, while I'm sure it was helpful for others, caused me some alarm, because I am not at all like the students described and would hate to be at a school where a scene like that is prevalent!) but I want to be convinced that I can find people like me easily at NWestern. </p>

<p>Can I?</p>

<p>A little bit about myself:</p>

<p>I'm a self-proclaimed nerd and I love academics, not grades. Right now on my bedtable sits an 800+ page book ("The Making of the Atomic Bomb," by Richard Rhodes) which I plan to read this summer to learn more about science and to develop a lesson out of it for this volunteer teaching program. My friends consider me very relaxed in a few ways, I don't worry about grades, I don't dress up (a t-shirt and jeans are it for me-- I'm literally allergic to jewelry and makeup!) and need to be in an enrionment where nobody expects me to dress up.</p>

<p>Socially, I'm able to make lots of friends, but I only find myself in a real connection with a few of them. The kids I know who go off to Ivy Leagues are way too uptight for me, and the kids I know who go off to state school aren't smart enough for me (in the way that they're not uptight, but they don't want to talk about school ever). Does NU have what I'm looking for, a lot of smart, non-uptight, non-party centered students?</p>

2

<p>This is the situation my D1 found herself in, and she never did find a satisfactory resolution. She desperately wanted an urban location, but due to other priorities is now at Oberlin. I'd have thought Chicago would appeal, but she loathed the notion of an imposed core curriculum.</p>

<p>Her friends at Northwestern describe a highly frat-influenced social scene, with an academic slant precisely the way you probably envision it. I don't know that "uptight" is the right word, but I don't know what is, either. Not saying this is bad, very "ivy", for want of a better handle. Like Cornell, anyway, from what I recall about that.</p>

<p>You've got Reed already; I might suggest Macalester. And maybe Barnard.</p>

3

<p>Thank you for the suggestions, Monydad, and I'll certainly take Macalester into account. I guess I, unlike your daughter, find a core curriculum appealing, and I like the idea that intellectually, everybody starts out on the same page.</p>

<p>I also thank you for your daughter's friends' accounts of their lives at Northwestern. My impression is that the school overall is frat-dominated and competitive (like many of the Ivy Leagues), but I wanted to know if there were pockets of students who were beyond that, and if so, how prevalent those pockets were.</p>

<p>When I say "uptight," I think about people who don't like school but happen to be good at it, or the kinds of people who have extremely defined goals: "I want to get into Harvard Law School." "I want a six figure salary." "I want to get a hot boyfriend." instead of generalized goals of "I want to be happy" or "I want to help make the world a better place." What I don't want to say here is that people who want to go to Harvard Law School are not happy or that they don't want to make the world a better place, but rather that I want to be around people who think first and do next, and I want to be around people who are happy with themselves and their level of achievement. I really dislike a lot of this back-and-forth "your scores/grades/EC's aren't good enough for our high-caliber institution which should be ranked higher than other high-caliber institution" argument.</p>

<p>I also intensely dislike NU's admissions office. But a school is not its admissions office.</p>

<p>Anyway, I think it's possible for a school to have a sort of multiple personality disorder-- I'm thinking about Stanford and Berkeley, schools that attract all sorts of students and all kinds of personalities so that everybody feels connected to the school, although connected in different ways (i.e. Stanford is a great place for competitive athletes, engineering geeks, hippies, nerds, etc.) I was wondering if NU also had this multiple personality thing going on too, and if so, if there was a pocket of people like me.</p>

4

<p>You might want to consider NYU or GW over Northwestern if you're looking for a larger school. Macalester is a good suggestion too.</p>

5

<p>You sound a bit like me. I am deeply curious about many things, and my life goals are not centered money or power or competition. I like reading science and philosophy books and doing research. And I'll be a freshman at NU this year.</p>

<p>To be honest, I was worried about many of the same things you were. And I'm really not sure how things will work out for me. I actually did not choose to go to NU, I wanted to go to another school that is about equal to NU in terms of overall quality and resources, but a little less frat-dominated and more... egalitarian, but my parents refused to let me leave the Chicago area (where I live now), so I had to go to NU. </p>

<p>I'm taking summer classes at NU right now and doing research there too, and while I haven't experienced the atmosphere with all the students there and all the frats, clubs, sports teams and other organizations up and running, I can say that it's not half-bad at all so far. I'm on campus 5 days a week for various reasons, so I'm spending a fair amount of time at NU. A lot of the students in my classes are sophs. and juniors trying to fulfill distribution requirements, and for the most part they've been friendly and helpful. I haven't really gotten to know that many of them well quite yet, but in class, these kids tend to have incredibly thoughtful and well-spoken comments during discussions and seem to actually care about the issues being discussed in class. I should mention that one of the classes I'm in, while not a science class, is full of pre-meds and there isn't much stress or competition in it. Again, I haven't had the full NU experienced, and things may just be more relaxed during the summer, but so far I've found my fellow NU students to be a pretty good bunch. I am still a bit worried about the things you're worried about (but to a lesser extent), but if the regular year is anything like the summer, I think NU wouldn't be a bad place at all for you (or me). It's actually pretty nice. </p>

<p>You talk about campuses with multiple personalities. I've heard, but again not seen first hand under normal school-year conditions, that NU can kind of have a split-personality. It's said that the North side of campus is very much frat- and sports-oriented, though many engineers also live there and that the south campus is much more music, theatre and humanities-focused. That's just what I'm told, again, it might not be the case. </p>

<p>And if you want a school that seems to have the "multiple personalities" you'd desire, take a look at Washington University in St. Louis (the school I got into and wanted to go to). Yes, their admissions office blows, but the campus is gorgeous and while St. Louis itself isn't that great, the area around Wash U does have a lot going on (a lot of good hang-out type places for college kids). There is a big frat scene there, but it doesn't seem to "dominate" and when I visited, it seemed like the type of environment that was catering to a wide range of types of kids, from political geeks, to over-worked premeds, to fun, popular types to nerds... it seemed like a really good mix of people. </p>

<p>PM me if you have any more questions about NU and if you're still interested in NU in the fall, I'll let you know how it's worked out for me after a few months.</p>

6

<p>Almost certainly every school has different types of kids, to a degree. There are numerous reasons why people wind up at colleges that do no fit them perfectly in some or many respects. Illinois-kid's example above is a case in point.</p>

<p>The issues are: i) what are the relative size of the groups of kids you share more values with; ii) how easy is it to connect with this cohort, scattered as they may be among the sea of otherwise-minded students; and ii) how much do you dislike the company of the, potentially vast in some cases, majority with whom you have a lot less in common. </p>

<p>Like if it was the case that there were 200 kids in your dorm, and it turns out you dislike 175 of them including your rooommate, and vica versa, will the fact that there are some other kids around the large campus, someplace, allegedly, who share more of your values be enough for you, so long as you can be in a suburb 30 minutes from downtown Chicago? Instead of being in downtown St. Paul, or in a small city 40 minutes from downtown Cleveland, or 2 hours from New York, with, in each case, a much higher proportion of like-minded people?</p>

<p>I can tell you that one of D1's best friends, who shares at least some of her attitudes, is at Northwestern and does not enjoy it there socially, precisely for these reasons. Whereas I imagine numerous other people who it fits better love it. He does think the academics are top-notch.</p>

7

<p>THE BEST THING ABOUT NORTHWESTERN is the fact that it is extremely high ranked in many disjoint fields, which gives you an extremely talented and diverse student body, with many passions and interests. What that means is that no matter what kind of personality you have, you will find a place to fit into at Northwestern. </p>

<p>You just have to look for it.</p>

<p>Let me give you an example of the kids in my hall (I lived in Shepard on South Campus). My roommate got 4th place at the Harvard MIT math tournament, went to chemistry olympiad, and also loves to drink and party. Another girl down my hall competed in ice skating with Sasha Cohen and is a theater major/psychology/pre-med, and is a sorotity girl. The guy across the hall is a Radio Television and Film major, definitely NOT in a fraternity, who finds pleasure in movies like Mulholland Drive and reading Dostoevsky and the like. I'm an engineer who wrote for his application essay how he used the scientific method to pick up girls (hey, it works). We're also all very intelligent, and always ready for a good conversation in the hallway. </p>

<p>I can't imagine a place that better fosters mental development and growth. The people here are so multifaceted, and there are so many clubs on campus, that you will always be able to find a place to fit in, as long as you look. </p>

<p>There is a problem I find with your statement though:</p>

<p>Where I can find ... "smart, non-uptight, non-party centered students?"</p>

<p>Don't limit yourself. You think you're smart because you read "The making of the atomic bomb", but you're not special. It's almost given that everyone here is smart and probably nerdy to an extent, so don't worry about that. But you may also find that people who aren't "smart" also have a lot to offer to the table as well. You also may be surprised how much you change once you get here, maybe you'll become a partier yourself. Maybe not though! But don't inhibit yourself. It's college. Go out and look around, and see what it has to offer, before you decide what you want to get from it.</p>

8

<p>D spent a foreign exchange year at NU. The academics were fantastic, a lot of freshmen were into heavy partying but it's quite easy to find good fits especially if you have an EC (great music, drama, sports....). Just beware the weather: it's artic...</p>

9

<p>


</p>

<p>i dont know much, but isnt this true for the majority of universities with the exceptions being the schools the OP would like? the one night I stayed over, it was easy to see the dichotomy of agendas even on only North campus. my host was a frat brother so he showed me a good time in the best way a frat bro knows how ( ;) ) however, on the walk back to our dorms at around 1 or 2 in the night. we walked past slivka where an entire room was filled with ppl studying and what not. i think there is everything for someone at NU but the latter of the people will probably be the minority.</p>

10

<p>I disagree. Just because you party doesn't mean that you don't work hard. I'm also in a fraternity, but I manage to pull off great grades in honors engineering courses. It's a work hard play hard mentality, and as long as you work hard, playing hard won't do you damage (it'll actually help balance you out).</p>

11

<p>RisingSun, thanks for those anecdotes. I know NU has a lot of strong programs, so I knew that people would be drawn to the school for many different programs and fields, like what you mentioned.</p>

<p>I mentioned "Making of the Atomic Bomb," not to be like "Hey, I'm smart, and you're not," (at top schools like these, I take it for granted that EVERYBODY is smart in their own way, whether it shows on the surface or not, so the potential for finding smart people is not a concern to me).</p>

<p>What is a concern to me is what has been described, this "work hard/play hard" mentality, because while I can sympathize with it, it's not the way I do life. For me, work and play are virtually the same thing, and I enjoy work about as much as I do talking with a friend or seeing a movie or going to a party or whatever. I don't need to get my enjoyment from "playing hard" to compensate for the fact that I'm "working hard."</p>

<p>Though I certainly respect the academic level of Northwestern, in the end it's not sounding like the right school for me. I'll try to visit on my own, but I don't know if that's possible. So many schools on my list already, and I want to have a chance to visit every school I apply to...</p>

12

<p>It's pretty simple. </p>

<p>If you want to be surrounded by nerdy students who are generally not that interested in their grades but rather in the theoretical life, then go to UChicago. Northwestern is known for being much more pre-professional. While "pockets" of different students may exist at Northwestern, the general atmosphere is pre-professional. UChicago is not like this generally. To boot, UChicago is actually in Chicago. It seems to fit your criteria for an university.</p>

13

<p>it seems pretty obvious that you dont seem to be interested by NU. dont worry about it. there are so many colleges it is frivolous to want to be convinced to like college A or if college A has some preferences like college XYZ. there are so many options that so much convincing doesnt make sense. you seem to have a clear cut image of the type of college experience you want. you cant make colleges into what you want. there are so many that already have what you want, theres no point. if you like UChicago, you should know that NU and UChicago are considered opposites, the only major similarity being geographical location.</p>

14

<p>I loved RisingSun's post and I agree with all of it.</p>

<p>BUT: to be perfectly honest smyeth, I don't think NU is really the best place for you. I'm sure you would appreciate the academics and be able to find people you like, but your goal should be to find a college where you feel like you are "the average" student. It makes such a difference! I learned this from my brother who went to one university, found friends he liked and was fine, but then transferred to a new school that was a better fit and really was successful. </p>

<p>I realize that I don't really know you from this one post, but I had friends in high school who seem to be a lot like you, and I know that they would have not enjoyed NU. I think you would be happier in a place like Reed, Oberlin or UChicago. Oberlin is definitely isolated, but Reed has Portland nearby and UChicago has Chicago.</p>

15

<p>the schools you listed, to me, seem like a much better fit for you than northwestern.</p>

<p>the things people have said about northwestern, although they obviously can be mitigated to some extent by anecdotes like the ones risingsun provided, are largely true when looking at the school holistically.</p>

<p>even comparing it to ivy league schools, it is still on the further side of the equation: it is much more of a "penn" or "princeton" than a "brown" or "columbia"</p>

16

<p>Thanks everybody for your honest, candid answers. I was expecting a troop of diehard NU students to defend the school at all costs....</p>

<p>For what's in it for me, I'm having a hard time trying to convince my parents that a tiny, expensive school that they've never heard of (Reed, Oberlin) is better for me than a school that they HAVE heard of and they know is academically strong, like Northwestern and Cornell. I'll probably end up applying to NU to appease parents (terrible, I know), but we'll see what comes to what. I think UChicago is okay by them (I told them they didn't have to scan that far down on the USNWR list to find it).</p>

<p>I WANT to like Northwestern. If I do end up going, it sounds like I'll have some difficulty fitting in at first, but that eventually I'll find my own. Even though I might not fit in with the whole jock/frat thing, at least I know that there are some people around campus who are honest about their flaws and such :-)</p>

17

<p>Be true to yourself.There are so many good college choices out there that you do not need to be working so hard to make NU the right place for you. Be honest with yourself and find the school that feels right TO YOU. If it's not NU, that's ok; it's not the right place for everybody (and that's ok) and it is the perfect place for others (and that's great).</p>

<p>This is your choice. Trust your own judgment and make a decision that makes you comfortable and happy. Remember the adage about the pig's ear and the silk purse. If NU is a pig's ear for you, you will never be content there. For others it already IS the silk purse.</p>

<p>Good luck deciding. Make your decision for all of the right reasons and choose according to your own comfort level. Don't let anyone else make the decision for you.</p>

18

<p>
[quote]
I WANT to like Northwestern. If I do end up going, it sounds like I'll have some difficulty fitting in at first, but that eventually I'll find my own. Even though I might not fit in with the whole jock/frat thing, at least I know that there are some people around campus who are honest about their flaws and such :-)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>i think if you came to northwestern you would probably like it. it's hard to dislike the school, but i feel as if, judging from your post, you would be much more fulfilled from going to a school that has a slightly different emphasis/environment. i imagine a school like the ones you described would be much more satisfying and fill you with many more intangibles and provide a cathartic experience you would carry for the rest of your life.</p>

<p>northwestern has its fair share of quirks and academic pursuit, but most everyone at the university is there to get something done, and you definitely would have a general sense of this on campus, and i feel like it might not be as wholly robust a qualifier in doing you justice</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
For what's in it for me, I'm having a hard time trying to convince my parents that a tiny, expensive school that they've never heard of (Reed, Oberlin) is better for me than a school that they HAVE heard of and they know is academically strong, like Northwestern and Cornell. I'll probably end up applying to NU to appease parents (terrible, I know), but we'll see what comes to what. I think UChicago is okay by them (I told them they didn't have to scan that far down on the USNWR list to find it).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Go to where YOU want to go and where YOU fit in best. Not what's ranked the highest in some stupid money-ploy of a publication...</p>

20

<p>"Even though I might not fit in with the whole jock/frat thing, at least I know that there are some people around campus who are honest about their flaws and such :-)"</p>

<p>But, NU is not a jock school. In fact, it's kind of known for being bad at sports in the league, but it's just exciting to go to games and cheer for your school; that's where the fun is for some people.</p>

<p>You wouldn't fit in with the jock/frat groups as you said, but I'm positive there is a larger group of students who are more focused on intellect. I'm an entering freshman, but I, for one, can NOT picture myself in a frat and am not a huge fan of sports. I like to read and have good class discussions, but I also like to check out concerts in the city and sit around with friends and joke about things and have good time. Surely even if you're passionate about your intellectual interest, there's no reason to avoid conversations where academics isn't the subject right? Most of the kids I know who already go to NU are pretty much the same, really smart and passionate in what they pursue, not the best athletes but they're still fun to hang out with.</p>

<p>NU is known to be a school with a good balance of academics and social life, but if one had to be chosen to classify the school, academics would be the bigger emphasis at NU. But really, since when was it considered a "flaw" to have a good social life?</p>

<p>Just found the choice of words a little odd :P</p>