<p>I thought AP Euro was much easier than US, World and the English exams…</p>
<p>Legit APs: AP Lang, AP Lit, AP USH, AP Euro, AP World, AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Phys B or C, AP Calc AB, AP Calc BC, AP Spanish, French, other foreign language APs, AP Music Theory.</p>
<p>Not legit: All the others.</p>
<p>It is fine to take a ‘not legit’ AP as a fun class (like an elective) but not as a class that is taken instead of a legit class. My D loved AP Psych, for example.</p>
<p>vicariousparent, by what criteria are you separating the “legit” sheep from the “not legit” goats?</p>
<p>^^My thougts exactly what makes a class “legit” or not. Silly.</p>
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How would the student fit in a “fun class” if they have to take every AP offered first? Wouldn’t that preclude all of your "non legit’ AP’s for most students at most hs? </p>
<p>Do you look upon these majors as ‘not legit’ once they are in college as well?</p>
<p>I’m going to give a little bit of a different perspective in this. My older son is very strong academically and took 8 APs in hs and scored 5’s on all 8 exams - so I am pretty familiar with the program Most of the classes were quite rigorous - particularly Calc BC and Chem.</p>
<p>My younger son is a different student. I initially thought that he would not be taking any AP courses. However, we decided that given his hs record for APs - he would look pretty weak to colleges with no APs whatsoever. So - I purposefully looked at which might be the easiest AP for him to try - that would also interest him - and we decided on AP Psych. Well, it’s only 2 weeks into the school year - so it’s early to say much - but so far - it is his favorite class. He is motivated to work hard in this class because he likes the teacher and he finds the subject matter interesting. So while some may consider it to be a “lesser” AP - I really don’t care. My son is having an educational experience that he is enjoying and is also adding a little more rigor to his transcript - a win-win in my book.</p>
<p>If you’d like to see how students do on the various AP exams you can look over the subject specific data on the AP Report to the Nation.</p>
<p>[AP</a> - Report to the Nation - College Board](<a href=“College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools”>College Board - SAT, AP, College Search and Admission Tools)</p>
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<p>Absolutely not, but it has little to do with the high school, IMO. What separates AP from ‘AP Lite’ is what colleges think and, more importantly, for what they award credit. (Since most students attend publics, I use our instate flagship for comparison.)</p>
<p>For example, AP Bio (and Chem and Physics B) can earn a full year of credit, but AP Enviro (a Lite) earns one semester/quarter. Calc BC can earn one full year of college credit, but AB only earns one semester. Likewise, Statistics only earns one semester/quarter of college credit.</p>
<p>Comp Sci, Psych, both Govt, both Econs, Human Geog, each Latin, typically earn one semester/quarter…</p>
<p>Hi PaperChasePop</p>
<p>Yes I think there are lots on the AP list that aren’t REALLY AP/college level.</p>
<p>In fact I question …
IF the class really is college level if a 13,14 or 15 yr old is taking all of these APs? If its truly AP curriculum…(college level)
Have our universities sunk so low compared to “back in the day”?
Why do so many universities NOT accept the credit?
If the dear ones taking all of the APs starting freshman yr are sooo advanced…then why not send them to college?</p>
<p>Something is wrong with the system. </p>
<p>In our case, our student will have 10 APs - taken between Jr and Sr yr–all in the Maths and hard sciences, English, Latin etc…and yet we fully expect kiddo will not have advanced standing or get credit, as just about every college on kiddos list does NOT give any college credit. In fact I have read critiques by professors who say the AP classes are far inferior to the rigor of the intro classes. I have met parents who say their kids were sorry they took advanced classes and were swamped by mid semester freshman year.</p>
<p>IMHO, its about College Board making $$$
in our case–each test kiddo takes–we have to write the check…
Why did kiddo do it–to compete and have the "most rigorous’ curriculum</p>
<p>This is the link to the U of Minnesota AP credit page. I find 2 things of interest. 1) they seem to accept a score of 3 or more for all topics except music theory which requires a 5 and 2) the amount of credits given for US/Euro history, Chem and Physics B are much higher than credits given for the balance of the tests. </p>
<p><a href=“http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/academics/ap.html[/url]”>http://admissions.tc.umn.edu/academics/ap.html</a> </p>
<p>At an info meeting I asked how they determined the score cutoff. The response was that the cutoff was determined by some state agency… If they don’t accept 3’s they will lose some funding. True/false…I don’t know.</p>
<p>kajon:</p>
<p>MN also gives two courses’ worth of credit for Lit and Calc BC according to your link.</p>
<p>Many good comments thus far. AP exams are meant to show knowledge of a subject as taught in an average college course. They are not showing material learned, but material known by the student. A native of a country with language x will know the language without needing to take a course in it. Some college students will get an “A” in a course based on knowledge they had before taking the course, likewise a HS student can get a “5” on an AP exam based on out of class knowledge. The AP exam system has standardized course material to be covered and hopefully learned by students. This way they can do comparisons from different schools. </p>
<p>I know of a student with an A in the HS AP chemistry course who got a 3 on the AP exam and another who finished the second semester with a C in the course but a 5 on the exam- different states and years. The student with the 5 learned the material expected for the AP Chemistry course despite not bothering to meet his teachers criteria for a better grade. The student with the A did not get taught what was needed for success on the AP exam.</p>
<p>One reason some of the top colleges do not accept AP credits is that their version of an introductory course on the subject will cover a lot more than the AP course. You will also see different schools giving different credits for various AP test scores.</p>
<p>The reason to have AP courses in HS’s is to make available courses with a known rigor beyond typical HS courses. Obviously a HS can teach a more rigorous course than the AP version, hence offering, for example, “Honors Biology” instead of AP Biology when the teacher wants to cover different material. Likewise a school can drop the ball and not teach the material to be covered in an AP course very well. Not a perfect system but it has allowed many schools to offer more rigorous courses by offering a standard to meet with specific material and goals- no need to do all of thework involved setting up of a new course.</p>
<p>Some students end up with honors from AP for the number of AP tests passed because they take the courses in their HS to get the best offered. A look at the percentage of students passing AP tests taken in various states will show that not all students who take them breeze through them. Some colleges also look at the number of available AP courses in a HS- a student will not be penalized because they did not have the opportunity to take AP courses whereas others who ignore their chances for them in lieu of regular courses are noted. AP exam scores compared to grades given will also show something about the rigor of the AP courses at a HS.</p>
<p>All AP courses are of college caliber- an average college, not the top schools. Vast differences in the chemistry taken at Joe Blow U and Elite U. Different subjects are difficult for different people- often those requiring math or writing skills. How many people can take a year of AP Music and get a 5? Not all students are equally academically endowed, and in all areas. Some students take HS physics then AP physics and/or US History and the AP version while some skip the HS level course and do well in the AP version. Some gifted students living in a major college town may take the calculus based Honors Physics at the college itself while only 14 along with the gifted 16 year old college freshman and those who are 18 or older. One size does not fit all- schools tend to be geared to the middle group of students, not the exceptionally fast or slow learners.</p>
<p>A post got me going on giftedness. In my day they didn’t always have enough available in HS for the top students. Often bored and not working up to ability or using one’s whole brain. Despite problems AP courses have helped get a more appropriate education for many students who otherwise would not have the opportunity. Cross posting with a couple of posts. Think outside your particular school system. Some offer a more rigorous curriculum despite the same name of a course. btw- the typical number of credits for some math/science courses taken as a college freshman is greater than for other subjects, hence the differences in AP credits awarded.</p>
<p>My younger son swears he got a 5 on the World History AP because of playing Age of Empires. I think we on CC forget that APs are supposed to represent courses at average colleges - you know the 75% of the colleges that accept 75% of their applicants. </p>
<p>I’m frequently amazed at what my kids don’t know that I’ve picked up through reading the paper. OTOH I certainly couldn’t pass a calculus exam any more.</p>
<p>Both my sons took many AP’s in the subjects they had a passion and talent for, even if the colleges they attended did not grant them credit for everything. Both actually sat for quite a few tests, but not in every subject they took. In our HS, the AP classes have the most dedicated students and teachers, creating the best learning environment. Even without all the college credit, taking the AP classes prepared them for college academics. And, I do believe the colleges they applied to looked favorably on their AP curriculum.</p>
<p>Some seniors in our school went to take community college choices instead. Both my boys enjoyed the full senior HS experience, so I think AP is a better choice r the “advanced” student, unless saving tuition cost is a critical factor.</p>
<p>mathmom - both my son’s claim they learned more from the History Channel than their World History teacher. (And yes, they both played Age of Empires too!) Whatever works…</p>
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<p>Totally agree. In the days when AP clases were infants on the educaitonal scene I remember our high school developing a handful of classes for those of us who were more academically inclined. I specifically remember a “Great Books” class and a history class. You were either college prep or not and if college prep was too easy then you got some of the “special classes.” All it did was better prepare us for college level work. That’s really all AP should be about.</p>
<p>I also don’t believe that colleges should give “credit” for AP classes. While the caliber is more rigorous than the average high school classes I do not believe it is “college” caliber. At the very least colleges could use the AP test scores in lieu of placement tests for lower level Math, science and languages. The rewarding of credit for placing out of classes is a bonus some colleges/unis give. We have very few APs in our HS and doesn’t bother me at all. We have “other classes” that are a full year that are very rigorous but not AP branded. Those classes are indicated on the transcript. Rigorous, more rigorous, lesser AP, etc. is abit of “only on CC” absurdity…next thing we’ll see is lobby efforts to give “more weight” to the kids who take the non “lesser APs.” Really come on.</p>
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<p>My criterion for ‘legit’: Does the AP class (and a 4 or 5 on the exam) look impressive to a college admissions officer in a highly selective college? </p>
<p>My post was of course intentionally provocative, but the point I want to make is that a student would be better served (in the college applications game) by taking on a smaller number of ‘legit’ APs than loading up on ‘non-legit’ APs. Especially if the student is aiming for highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>This has nothing to do with my opinion of those subjects or those classes.</p>
<p>Both S1 and S2 said reading the newspaper, Age of Empires and the History Channel proved helpful on exams more than once.</p>
<p>We did not care so much about whether out kids would get credit, but they did care about being challenged, and being in a classroom with kids who shared that mindset.</p>
<p>fogfog, if my older S had not gotten into a specialized program, he would have been in college at 14. We were glad the HS he attended had advanced work with kids his own age.</p>
<p>My DS opted not to take AP Spanish, despite the fact that it translates into a lot of credit at some colleges (not so for his IB SL Spanish).</p>
<p>His senior schedule was already heavily loaded, and he knew that due to the large percentage of native speakers taking the test it would be hard for him to get more than a 3. His older sister, excellent at languages, got a 3. And the Spanish teacher told us that her kid got a 3. </p>
<p>For other courses, I think that AP rigor varies greatly. (We know more about IB, but we hear about AP from other families and other CC threads). Doing well on the exam does not necessarily mean you learned a lot in the course. In some cases the assignments are often not nearly as tough as college courses.</p>
<p>Hmmm…colorado_mom, guess it depends on the college. S2 had a 4 on AP Spanish Lang and a 5 on IB SL Spanish, and got the same amount of credit from our flagship and Tufts. (I can’t begin to tell you how excited he was about those scores, too – he had Bs all the way through five years. Fully expected a 3 on the AP.) </p>
<p>Tufts had him take a placement exam, and he got into 5th semester Spanish, and he hasn’t taken it since the end of junior year. (And believe, me, he didn’t do anything for the placement exam!) His speaking and listening are a lot better than his writing skills. He is starting a new language and so will only use the Spanish credit/placement if the new language proves to be a bear.</p>
<p>While he got more credit from AP than IB, I think the intensity and difficulty of his IB program has better prepared him for college.</p>