<p>"Doesn't matter if someone is rich or poor, he or she can still get a 2200 or a 32."The main thing is hard work. Why would a rich kid score significantly higher than a poor kid? Just because the rich kid has experienced more, wears nice clothes, gets girls and goes to a richy rich private school doesn't give him an upper hand by no means. Everyone is of the same intelligence when they're born, no matter what. It's up to the person; if he or she wants to become a billionaire when he/she grows up, coming from a poor family wont be a hindrance. The main thing here is 'hard work'. Believe it or not, I have some relatives that lived in cottages and studied on the bare floor with nothing but a light bulb; now they are rather well off. So, my point is that rich kids dont have a 100% advantage over poor kids when it comes to SAT/ACT scores. Its just that the poor kids don't have an inkling to work hard. The rich kids do because their parents are doctors, lawyers, or engineers and have high expectations from their kids."</p>
<p>I agree with some of what you say. My point is that rich kids have been preparing for the SATs their whole lives by taking challenging courses at good schools. Not all people are born of the same intelligence. People who are low-functioning retards? Geniuses? I do agree, though, that just because a person is well educated doesn't mean he or she is any more intelligent than the average person. It's all about being independent and self-motivated.</p>
<p>BOTTOM LINE: Anyone who is low-income and goes to a crappy school won't be expected to have scores as high as some kid from Andover. However, if he or she manages to score like a 2300, that will look extremely impressive.</p>
<p>Thing is, most of these standardized tests have questions that be answered with simple strategies and formulas that are just TAUGHT in school. Recognize a problem's parameters on a test, and use an equation, plug, and chug. A poorer student may not have access to such information. They may not know intuitively that F = ma. I sure as hell know many people didn't way back in the day before certain, ahem, physicists. However, the richer kid probably won't know such a thing intuitively either, but he was sure taught the equation. </p>
<p>Point is, you can't assume intelligence based on background. Sometimes it's just a matter of what you are taught and what you memorize. There is a difference between one who is educated and one who is intelligent. People often can't distinguish the two.</p>
<p>Gameguy: You are obviously a rich kid with no sense of anything in the real world. Your only sense of understandiing things outside of you own world is obviously "via." Get into the real world and learn-</p>
<p>Okay, here's my two cents:
The test is not necessarily biased against any particular race, but it is definitely targeted at people who have a higher socioeconomic status, and go to better public schools (or private schools) that prep them for the test. You don't have to hire expensive tutors, but if your school has a not-so-great education system, you could get straight A's and still receive 500s.<br>
Of course it is "possible" to pull yourself up and beyond your school's average SAT score, to study from library books for months, and to "defeat" your serious disadvantages. Uhm, but honestly, even the most motivated students will only go so far... And if you're working after school, taking care of your baby brother, helping your parents out at home when they're working all the time at low-income jobs... how much time are you going to have to drill yourself on figuring out things like the difference between someone "disagreeing slightly" or "opposing emphatically" on these tests? Especially if everyone around you is telling you you won't succeed.
You can definitely do well prepping on your own, but if you are struggling so much you have no time to study.... that's a different story. </p>
<p>PS: The subjects of the test passages have also supposedly been more related to white culture than to minorities, but I'm not 100% sure if this is true.</p>
<p>In the past, yes there have been accusations that the SAT essays use language biased towards the higher socioeconomic strata. But I wouldn't call it a serious deterrent.</p>
<p>If there is anything that is a great equalizer, it's practice. If I had to choose between an upper-middle class kid with no prep and a poor kid who took 20 practice tests in the last four months, my money would be on the latter without hesitation. </p>
<p>That is a rather narrow viewpoint, however.</p>
<p>It's not that hard to self prep for this test, I borrowed a bunch of SAT prep books from the library and improved my score by 400 (1600-->2000)...(I go to a middle class public high school). oh yeah, and I'm minority as well. The point is, if someone really wanted to do it, they could get their scores up by a lot even if they aren't that smart.</p>
<p>Theres a difference between being rich and having certain securities. Children of wealthy parents don't have to worry about whether or not they will have food, whether food at home will be healthy, whether food will be at home at all when they come from a day at school. Theres also other securities such as not being able to be sure that you will be going to same school the rest of the year (especially if your family has to constantly move because money is a huge issue). There are also added responsibilities such as taking care of little brothers and/or sisters. Sometimes they may even be forced to take care of cousins. Theres also a difference when summers are filled with work and not trips to Italy or cruises around the world, being able to relax and rest is a huge advangtage of the rich. Most people do trust that schools are teaching what they need to suceed, they think that if they do the best in their respective schools that they will be equiped with a competive education. It's very difficult to be poor and raise yourself up, and always its seen as a race issue which it is not.</p>
<p>"Children of wealthy parents don't have to worry about whether or not they will have food, whether food at home will be healthy, whether food will be at home at all when they come from a day at school."</p>
<p>As opposed to the nonexistent children of poor parents who go home and worry that they have nothing to eat? I live in the urban community of a major crap city known as New Jersey and no other kids have to worry about the bare minimum subsistence circumstances you just described.</p>
<p>I agree with gameguy, but you have to realize that some rich kids can afford tutoring courses which can boost their score tremendously. While the poor kids cannot. But then again there is the matter of who wants it more. A poor kid, I believe, will try harder than a rich kid to get a great score because they have more at stake, going to college, financial aid, etc.</p>
<p>In reply to PrincetonFather:
Some parents are unable to take advantage of programs that provide things like food, especially if they're immigrants. Just because there are programs in place doesn't mean that people are taking advantage of them. I didn't really understand your comment completely</p>
<p>I have heard that colleges will expect high-income kids to have 50-100 points more than the average. Therefore colleges might discount 50-100 points from those kids.</p>
<p>Anyway, my thoughts on the matter are that the SAT requires more concentration than it does preparation. The focused student will do far better on the SAT than will the unfocused student with a PR book in his hand. Perhaps thoughts of being discriminated against negatively affect a person's belief in his or her own abilities. Also, it is much easier to blame personal failures on society's ills than it is to ask the question: "what can <em>I</em> do to improve my situation?"</p>
<p>milesguidon--- That post is by far one of the worse posts I've even seen on these boards. You're probably a white or asian kid from the NE that goes to a good school, so shut up. You don't know anything about being low-income or being a minority. I can't imagine what your "unedited" post was like. It's impossible hard for someone to solve a math problem if he or she doesn't have the knowledge in his or her head to do so. How is a poor person who goes to a bad school supposed to magically know what the word " fdjfkdlfd" means? Even Adderall can't help you with that one (may I also mind you this drug only works on those who REALLY have ADHD/ADD because it has the opposite effect on their brain).</p>
<p>I was hoping somebody would put me in my place. Thanks. By the way, youre right. I am white, and I go to a good school. My views are warped, and I don't know what it is like to be disadvantaged and underrepresented.</p>
<p>milesguidon - You are entitled to your opinion on the SAT, or anything else, for that matter. But opinion is no substitute for fact. And the facts are that expensive private tutoring cost well above $150/hr (Kaplan classes are bargain basement) and parents shell out the $$ because of the results. </p>
<p>And Blossomgirl - - trying harder rarely produces the same results as high- priced indivudualized coaching.</p>
<p>Most of the questions on the SATs do not require great knowledge of any material. Really, most of the questions test reasoning, not knowledge. The person who talked about F=ma, that is not on the SATs. SAT IIs are a completely different story- those seem to be completely biased towards those with good schooling. SAT Is on the other hand, I think even at a poor school they probably teach enough that an extremely intelligent student could get a 1600. The problem is what mehhhh was talking about- the poor students often have to work, take care of the family, etc. The rich students can spend that time studying, etc. Also, there are many added stresses of being poor, which can effect performance on a test due to stress. I think the expectations of a student also have a huge effect on their performance. Those students that are expected to get 900 on SATs won't retake a 1000, because where theyre from that's great!</p>
<p>I could have not said it better than Northsatrmom. When we came to this country, our family income was $15,000. However, we value education. Our kid scored more than 1480 in junior high. He attended a crappy school. Therefore, income and SAT are not correlated. Now our income is still not much higher. One has to work hard to achieve their dreams. Kid scored perfect 1600 in SAT 1 and 800 in SAT II. Working hard and taking ownership is a responsibility. One can always blame others but with personal responsibility one can achieve anything including attending prep school with full financial aids. Therefore, do not say that you can not overcome your problems, just study harder and get involved in meaningful activities.</p>
<p>While I wouldn't call myself poor or black, my test preparation consisted of a $30 Princeton Review book, and I scored quite well on the SAT. I hardly doubt that this is beyond the means of ANYONE ready to go away to college. I don't buy the culturally-biased argument and I never will.</p>